By Guest Writer, WWG
I recently read an article on Huffington Post GayVoices by Jincey Lumpkin called “Lying About Being a Lesbian? My Ex-Boyfriend’s Response” . In it, she asks an ex-boyfriend of hers questions about their relationship and his response to it all, including after she came out. I couldn’t help but think about the many relationships I had with men while I struggled with my orientation. This was also in part due to a recent incident with an ex of mine, who is now married. He reached out with a proposal to set me up with a friend of a friend of his if I was single.
A bit about him and our past: He was someone I dated in that period of a couple of years before I came out to myself finally, when I was desperately trying to figure out why I, a healthy 20-something woman, couldn’t deal with men hitting on me, became a cold fish in bed with them and found sex with them hurt like crazy. He was a smart, decent guy, a bit socially awkward in that way straight, single guys can be, but someone about whom my mom said that she thought “would be the one that got away” when I confessed reluctance to go out with him. I can definitely say I didn’t feel the same as my mother when I went on the date with him. The date didn’t go anywhere, at least not on my end. And then he moved away.
However, when he came back into town for a visit a few months after he moved away, he reached out to me to hang out again. And then we did what we didn’t do after our first and only date – we slept together – once (well, okay, twice in one night). I confess, I slept with him because I was bored, and desperate to care about sex with men again and feel sexy and in tune with my sexuality. As you can imagine, it didn’t work. After that, we didn’t really talk anymore, until he added me on Facebook a few years later. I can honestly say that if he wasn’t married, I probably wouldn’t have added him. But with him safely taken, I felt comfortable knowing he wasn’t trying to get back in my pants.
When he messaged me about the potential guy for me, his tone was unlike that of the single dude out for pussy I once knew. It was respectful, kind, and mature. When I let him know it wouldn’t work with his friend because – surprise! — I am gay, I asked if he had any inkling. And he surprised me by saying that no, he did not, not because of my feminine looks, but because I was rather passionate when we were together. I was? “Were we in the same bed together,” I wondered?! And that brings me to my point.
In Jincey’s post-mortem of her relationship with the ex-boyfriend, she asks him questions, giving him the space to respond and be honest with no response or argument from her. I respect her bravery immensely.
How did you feel when I finally came out of the closet?
[snip]But what did hurt a great deal was all the things you’ve said to invalidate our relationship, what we had together, our love, our experiences. That you were pretending, that none of what we lived was real. That hurt a lot. Couldn’t you just go and be merry with some women? Did you have to do it like this? Did you really mean all that? Why try to hurt me? That’s what I couldn’t understand.
Did you have trouble with trusting women after I came out of the closet?
Hell yeah. I was not very trusting with women to begin with. I never trusted women in general, in terms of their integrity, reliability, reason, consistency — and driving ability, but that’s irrelevant, I guess. But after you, I didn’t even trust that women actually liked me, that they enjoyed sex with me, that are honest and not pretending.
That comment gave me pause, as I admit I had never fully stopped to think about it from the man’s perspective. It makes me want to go back to all of my semi-serious ex boyfriends and get a post-mortem of our relationship from their perspective. If an ex-boyfriend who I barely felt I was passionate with thought of me that way, what would the ones who I dated for 6 months, who had lots of sex and something of a relationship with me think and feel?
I have no doubt I hurt some, if not all of the men who tried to date and care for me. When I wrote my blog “Real Age Vs. Dating Age as a lesbian” part of what I struggled (and still struggle with) was how to view the relationships I had with men. Technically, they were romantic relationships that I was part of, but how real can a relationship be when you’re consciously or unconsciously playing a character called Straight Girl. To me, a real romantic relationship includes genuine affection and interest. And yet, for the men in relationships with me, in relationships with closeted women everywhere, they ARE in a genuine relationship. I do know one of them dated a woman who was practically my clone in looks and personality after me, and even years later when we attempted friendship, he still made comments with the attempt to make me jealous. (Oh, and by the way, she and I are now friends and neither of us talk to him).
The good news is several of them are in serious relationships or married now, and I am happy for them, but I always wonder the effect my confusion and inability to be resolute about my orientation had on them and their perspective on relationships with women.
Have any of you gone back and done a post-mortem on your relationships with men after you came out? How did that go? What did you learn from it?
I have had this conversation with an ex-boyfriend. In fact, it’s sort of an ongoing thing because I’m now the god mother to his two girls. When I first met him, I was straight. By that I mean, I had noooooo clue I was gay! Yes the signs were there but … Well … I don’t want to hijack this blog with that story. I ended up having my first girl kiss while head I were on a “break” … I told him about it and then for a while I dated him and her. That was a mess. But he was sort of there watching my realization process so he got to see it for himself. I talked to him about it as it happened. Long long story short all these years later and he’s still one of my close friends. But he struggles with the idea that I’m a lesbian 100%. He can’t wrap his brain around how I was with him and how I’m never going to be with him again. I think part of him will always hold out a little hope. He’s probably one of the most open minded men I know and he’s happy for me and he’s glad I married Remi. (partly because we would raise is daughters in the event of anything and he’s glad there’s no man in the picture) but he still has his dumb boy moments.
I had “dated” girls before my last ex-boyfriend and we were together almost three years before he sat me down and said, “I wanna be with other girls… and so do you”
Yeah……….
I’m glad I never had sex with men. That’s not to say that the emotional and mental attraction wasn’t there, that there wasn’t a bond while it lasted, just that it wasn’t meant to last. There was no sexual attraction. I think it’s telling that the only time I could muster some physical curiosity or interest was when my body could identify or isolate something familiarly feminine about theirs.
As for invalidation:
Maybe our culture has sold us on this you need someone outside of yourself to make a thing real. Don’t buy it. Take comfort in the fact that it was real for you, and rejoice in that you now know your capacity to give, to love, and to be attracted to freely. Just because someone found who they are (or didnt, know, as the ca e may be), doesn’t mean it has to be about you. What you did or didn’t do. It’s not about you.What we mean by it wasn’t real for us is that we were the ones living a lie, and in confusion. If you call I love, don’t even for a second wish for us to go back to that.
All that from my difficult phone. *If you call it love, don’t even for a second wish for us to go back to that.
I have 2 ex boyfriends that are very supportive of my life as a happy lesbian. I don’t think they feel invalidated for me being gay NOW because, what we had was real at the time.
But for me, my sexuality has been somewhat fluid, evolving perhaps …. But it doesn’t negate the emotional and physical connection I once had with a lover. It just means that part of my life is over. And we all wish each other well. What’s the difference if Im with a woman or man now, either way, “we” were and always be over.
I also have a third ex that’s way more complicated and to say he didn’t take it well is an understatement.
I might have to blog about this now. Partially as therapy for me, lol. But WWG brings up a good question no one has really touched on yet and that is what did WE learn about OURSELVES in coming out to our ex’s?
I don’t have any interest in faking it.
As one of Sasha’s ex’s and a fan of her blog I wanted to chime in from a man’s perspective.
I was with Sasha when she met S. I had left on business for an extended period of time, during which she and S had hooked up. Sasha was very honest when I got back and that’s an entire series of blogs in itself. I’ll leave that to her.
When she told me that she had hooked up with this gorgeous woman my first reaction was, awesome. Can I watch? Typical dick head move. But it’s true. Over time eventually I did get to watch and I think that was more Sasha trying to figure out how she could combine her old life with this new life that was opening up to her.
At first I was cool with it. Then I was threatened by it. Eventually broke up and she was exclusively dating women. I preferred that. Had she left me for anoth man my ego wouldn’t have let it go. I would have gotten her back no matter what. But being that I saw what she needed was something I could never give her, I tried to step back and let her go find happiness without me.
It’s been hard, I still love her very much. She’s my best friend. Do I wish we re together sometimes? Yes. But I have to accept that will never happen. I do accept that.
Are all men like me? No. Some guys egos can’t handle that a woman can give them what they couldn’t. They don’t get it. It’s hard to love someone that doesn’t love you because of your physical anatomy. If I were a woman I think we would have lasted. Does that mess with my head? Yes.
Am I happy she’s gay? Yes. Because she’s happier then I’ve ever known her to be and when you love someone that’s all you really want.
My evolution is the same as many…I dated guys…then quickly both guys & girls…then girls. I think for me, it wasn’t that I wasn’t interested in the guys at the time – I just didn’t *ever* want to be in a long-term commitment with one…I would have felt trapped. But, I never got that feeling from women, like I’d be trapped – and the more I met, the more I found my type…and so it goes.
When I decided that I was more attracted to, and connected better with women, the guys – in retrospect when finding out – didn’t bat an eye. I think it’s because most of them knew I was very sexually fluid to begin with…and I’ve always had no problems being pretty adventurous. I don’t have any hang-ups, and was always up for a good time in that way. I was never a homophobe, and always was open to saying women were sexy.
They asked some questions – but most of them were about where we met, or how I decided to ‘settle down’ with a girl rather than a guy…what the differences were…nothing disrespectful.
I think the most disrespectful remarks I get are about their own wives…how they’ve gotten overweight, they are a ‘prude’, or whatever – and how I’m lucky because at least I’m with a younger woman who hasn’t ‘destroyed her body with a kid.’ Ugh. They feel unnaturally comfy critiquing their wives/gfs or sexualizing other women…which I’m frankly not into and stop.
The thing I learned the most from ‘coming out to the guys I’ve dated’ is that it’s amazing what guys will say about their own wives to you, once that door is open. It’s just so horrible. Or, maybe I just dated catty, metro guys who judge people more on appearance than they should. Either way – bad.
I am very blessed that it did not go this way with me, I know I couldn’t have handled the stress of it. I was with my ex husband for 11 years. In the two years between him and Crys I went on two dates (both men) and dated one of those two for about 4 months. Then I met Crys and I’ve been with her for almost 6 years. I think if I had to be in the dating world again at 37, I would just want to scream.
Well, my ex-bf’s are all from high school – no sex, just kissing and holding hands so I’ve never had to think about the impact of me coming out on them
My coming out actually had an impact on my first gf! She was too scared to come out to her family, we were together 2 years before I couldn’t take the lies and hiding away anymore. She still hasn’t come out.
Interesting perspective to think about though WWG – usually we’re all too busy listening to the plight of the gay to even think about how it’s affecting the straight.
Love your post Nate.
The slow and painful process of accepting the relationship had to end was already in full swing with my ex boyfriend when I finally realised that I’m gay. I’d had plenty of opportunities to work it out beforehand – I had my first girlfriend six years before and knew then that I’d never feel for a man what I did for her, and I’d had sex with a woman for the first time before I got together with him. He spent eighteen months pushing me for an open relationship and in general some of his behaviour was phenomenally cruel. I kept hanging on to him, partly because I already knew that after him I would never be with a man again and I wasn’t ready to let go or ‘close a door’, partly because I’d moved 20,000 miles away from my family over oceans to be with him, and partly because I figured I could survive this open relationship if it meant I could see women too. Before this happened though I realised very quickly that I could never do this to a woman – see her on the side while I had my boyfriend at home. More slowly I realised that I desperately wanted, with every fibre of my being, a relationship with a woman, and that I wanted it to be monogamous. Still this was all intellectual maths and the moment that I actually realised ‘Hey! I’m a lesbian!’ came quite some time later and felt like divine inspiration. Now it’s all so obvious.
When I came out to him, he was in pure denial for some time. Then, there were times where he’d flip back and forth. One day he’d say “You can’t be a lesbian. You were in love with me. You enjoyed sex with me!..didn’t you?” and the next he’d say that he’d always known and ask how I could have been so stupid not to work it out for myself.
His only other girlfriend before me also realised that she’s gay – though that was shortly after their relationship ended – and through conversations with her I’ve gathered that his reaction to her coming out was much worse. She was like a guardian angel to me when it was my turn.
Now, I’d say he’s back in denial. Most times his words say he knew all along (thanks for telling me and letting me get on with my life, asshole) but his actions speak differently. He knows I’m gay, there’s very little evidence to the contrary, but I believe his ego can’t accept that my fiancee makes me happier than he or any other man ever could – and she didn’t have to abuse me to gain my devotion.