OK, I have a question for you.
Can butches and femmes be JUST friends?
Hold on a second. I can already hear the sneering and the automatic, “Well duh, Sasha! Of course we can!”
But before anyone climbs up on their white steed and talks down to me, let me finish.
I ask this because Remi and I were having this conversation last night:
She said, “It’s the same old debate: can a straight man and straight woman be just friends?”
To which I immediately replied, “Yes.”
She sneered at me and asked, “Really Sasha? I mean think about it. How many guy friends of yours are purely friends and never tried to jump your bones, never flirted with you, never asked you out, or there was never any sexual tension between you two at least at some point?”
I went down a list of my male friends and after naming every straight guy friend of mine, came up with two. But one she dismissed because he’s in love with someone else and the other is questionable at best in Remi’s eyes.
Remi went on, “If a femme who loves butches starts hanging out with a bunch of single butches, it’s going to look bad. And eventually on at least one side of that friendship there’s going to be some sort of sexual tension. It’s bound to happen.”
This was the point in the conversation that my turrets acted up and I replied, armes haughtily folded over my chest, “Well there’s nothing wrong with a little healthy sexual tension.”
“Oh ………. you better believe I’ll remember you said that some day.” Was Remi’s not-so-veiled threat of retaliation. But I wasn’t worried.
So the debate continued …. and at one point she said, “I don’t like it because it implies I’m not butch enough for you. Like you need to seek it out outside the house.”
Turrets attack to commence in 3 … 2 … 1 ….. “Well you knew what I liked when you started dating me. It’s not my fault you don’t care what turns me on and what turns me off.”
No words are necessary here, as I’m sure you all can imagine the scathing look that incurred from Remi’s side of the bed.
Ughhh!!! Before I get too caught up in what followed, I’ll save that for another blog and return to the question at hand.
Can femmes and butches be simply friends? (at least one of them being single) No sexual tension? At all??
I vote yes.
Ideally, yes. Its completely possible in theory. And I’m sure there are very very few examples who truly do make it work, but in general, I’m on Remi’s side. People change every day, and at some point there is bound to be some tension on one side or the other.
I’m butch and I’m friends with Sasha. But I’d be a lying dog if I said there was never any tension between us. When I met her, she was going through some hard times, I found her all by her lonesome getting out of a cab in front of a local gay bar in the desert.
I flirted with her all night. I think she flirted back but she was holding back because of her current situation. Maybe it was my wishful thinking, but I always felt there was some unspoken tension between us.
So I’m on Remi’s side on this. Yes femmes and butches can be JUST friends. But NO, not without a certain amount of sexual tension at some point, if either or both of them is attractive. It’s just human nature.
Now, Sasha’s all shacked up and playing house so I’m relegated to the friend zone, which I’ll take. Because nothing lasts forever …..
I wouldn’t exactly call myself butch, think Ellen’s style and you’ve got a handle on me. But I’ve been friends with Sasha for about 9 years now and while we were involved off and on back in the day, we are just friends now. There no sexual tension between us at all.
I think she’s a beautiful soul and a wonderful friend and what happened between us feels like it was another lifetime.
Maybe I’m not the best example for her on this, since we do have a history somewhat. But I think it’s possible.
I vote yes, femmes and butches can be friends.
NO Sasha, I’m on Remi’s side with this.
You’re playing with fire if you start hanging out with single butches. Because at first they’ll be on their best behavior but eventually you’ll come crying to them when you’re fighting with Remi or you’ll act up when you’re manic and confuse the fuck out them, or they might just end up falling for you because you’re a cool chick who ain’t hard on the eys.
No matter how innocent it starts, someone’s going to develop feelings for the other. Maybe it’ll be you! If Remi’s not butch enough for you and that’s something you really desire then it’s probably just a matter of time before you find someone who is.
I have a handful of femmes who I am friends with an on my end there is no sexual tension. It’s the flip-side … they are attracted to me. So in my head, we are “just” friends but they have said or done things to express they like as more than a friend.
I also have femme friends who are in fact, just friends.
No history, no tension, maybe a mild flirtatious comment every now and then but only in fun.
So yes, I think butch/femmes can be just friends.
I have two butch friends that have never liked me whom I have never liked… That isn’t common though and most of the butch girls I was friends with I have since backed off my friendship with because they would be interested in more with me which I feel is disrespectful to my relationship. I much prefer to be friends with straight girls, gay men, or femme lesbians that like boyish girls. It really does save a lot of trouble and possible insecurity for your partner. It’s better safe. Insecurities are a sure way to tear a relationship apart and they are a common problem. I have taken the position that as long as my partners fears are reasonable I will do everything in my power to make her feel completely unthreatened by everyone in my life. And in the long run if I have to cut out some friends for her I don’t mind because she is my priority and no one comes before her sense of security. Her sense of well being in the relationship I feel is my responsibility… I didn’t always look at things this way.
My butch wife has a close friend who’s femme. At first, I got all jealous. When we had met this femme, I’d imagined the two of us shopping together, chatting, and getting on well and put my partner more in the category of “opposite” for her. And the femme friend has a butch partner, so I assumed my partner and the butch partner would click – they didn’t, really. They didn’t connect on that chatting, getting on well level.
Now days I have no jealousy at all. But my partner and I are very mature, and secure, and don’t play the games I used to play in the past. I used to be a huge flirt, I used to enjoy attention from others. Now my partner and I can see that we’re both very devoted to one another, and we don’t flirt with others. Sure, we may flash our smiles, and enjoy a bit of attention now and again, but we don’t do it to try to get the other one jealous. So I’m truly, honestly happy that my girl has this femme friend. They talk about anything and everything, but she comes home to me.
Actually I could also just ditto H in saying:
“I have taken the position that as long as my partners fears are reasonable I will do everything in my power to make her feel completely unthreatened by everyone in my life. And in the long run if I have to cut out some friends for her I don’t mind because she is my priority and no one comes before her sense of security. Her sense of well being in the relationship I feel is my responsibility… I didn’t always look at things this way.”
I absolutely agree. But then I feel very content in my relationship, very secure, and I know that she’d always put me first, and I want to put her first. If I wanted, she would stop being friends with her femme friend. I don’t mind. But I stopped being friends with a particular butch because the friendship became uncomfortable for the two of us (ie. me and my partner). We talked a lot. I didn’t want to be controlled by my partner, and at first, jealousy can appear to be a form of control… but if you examine it, talk it over, and decide that there’s some reason for the jealousy, then you need to do everything you can to remove that jealousy.
I will say that C and I have hung out with femme/butch couples and at least twice the butches got a little handsy with me. The first one we weren’t all that close to, and C was ok. The second really, really hurt her and confused me ( b/c I’m dense sometimes,lol!) so now I try to keep it to a minimum. However, C is also REALLY like that about straight guys I’m friends with, as I was married for 11years to a man…
Remi’s right. This is a bad idea. At least for your relationship. I don’t think that a woman that looks like you should be left alone with a bunch of single butches or straight men. Not saying that us butches can’t control ourselves. Some of us can, lol. As long as we’re stone cold sober.
But that brings me to my next point. Even the most respectful butch, if they’re your friend and you’re hot and cool to hang with will start to think that there’s obviously something missing in your relationship with Remi if you’re out there hanging with them.
Which some might take as an open invitation to make a move when they deem. the time may be right. And that time could be when you’re all drinking or when you’re crying on their shoulder over this or that.
Remi’s right. It looks bad if you hang with single butches. Not that you shouldn’t have friends that are butches, but maybe not a lot of alone time with them. Feel me?
I’m butch. Stone butch and you I’ll be the only butch you ever need.
Come on Sasha, you know you want to find out more. Let me taste you and you’ll know why I can never let you go again.
You can not hang out with a bunch of butches. Thats the whoreishness in you I told you I needed to cleanse.. You need me to fix you, it’s a defect in your character. It’s wrong. But I will make it right.
I was your friend when we were sparring partners in West LA but I always had ulterior motives. Every man does. Maybe that’s how butch women are too? I don’t know any but if they think like men, then it’s the same thing.
It sounds like you’re not totally satisfied with your girlfriend. If you’re so into butches and Remi’s not butch, then why are you with her? People can’t deny their true inner urges forever. It’s just a matter of time that your true nature acts up and you find someone that makes your heart pound and your body react, in ways that only a butch can.
If you’re really that into butches you know what I’m talking about. Remi’s probably afraid if you put yourself out there. hanging with single butches that like girls like you, it’s like letting a little dumb bunny rabbit play in a pen of rattle snakes. You might like our rattle but it’s just a matter of time before one of us bites you. And you’ll like it.
NO. I hope this doesn’t sound offensive but I don’t think STRAIGHT guys and girls can be just friends. It turns into something else one way or another. SO no a butch and a femme cannot be friends. There’s always something weird there.
I am way confused as to why “Sasha hanging out with butch lesbians” = “Remy’s not butch enough for Sasha.”
I have a lot of straight male friends. I don’t hang out with them because I secretly long for the dong that my girlfriend doesn’t have. I hang out with them because we have a wide range of common interests like music, humor, art, billiards, and outdoor activities.
It’s the same with my lesbian friends, straight female friends, and gay male friends. Nobody is there because my girlfriend isn’t enough. They’re there because they have merits as people beyond what they’re packing in the pants.
Yes, I am aware that most if not all of my straight male friends would likely bang me in a heartbeat, but that’s only relevant if I would be willing – and I’m not. It’s only relevant if that were the one and only reason they wanted to hang out with me, and it isn’t.
Now, I know it’s way more complicated with lesbians of any variety for the whole dyke drama phenomenon, so I’m not ready to just say Remi’s worries are unfounded or that she doesn’t have a point. All I am saying is that Sasha wanting to hang out with butches doesn’t mean that something is missing in their relationship. It’s jumping to a conclusion and hitting the ground running.
YES! They can! Definitely!
I have had about 6 really close guy friends that I never had any sexual tension with. (And it’s not like wouldn’t have made attractive couples..)
Over the years, their girlfriends have constantly gotten jealous b/c they spend so much time with me, even after they found out I’m gay. And my female friends’ boyfriends have gotten jealous over the guys countless times.
Because my friends & I have dealt with it so much, irrational jealousy is now pretty much a total deal breaker for me.
Hmm….good question that my gf & have often talked about. I’d like to naively (and for the joy of a good debate) vote yes…but deep down we ladies know this isn’t realistically possible. The second a butch or femme is single with the rest of ‘em. The lesbian “friend” community are fierce predators! I know I sound really bad saying this, but it’s merely by experience!
I know it’s so difficult not to respond to attention from a butchie! Aside, from all of that…it’s just easier for me to talk with a butchie. And I believe vice versa for our butches! Ssssh Don’t tell my gf I said that LOL j/k
But, I don’t think this should mean that we shouldn’t associate with each other! Just keep at a safe distance and make it clear you’re JUST friends! NO FLIRTING BACK NAUGHTY FEMMES LOL
I totally think they can be “just friends.” It’s like anything else, what if the femme isn’t attracted to butches, or the butch chick isn’t attracted to femmes?
To me, it’s pretty much the same argument as “can’t women and men JUST be friends?” Of course. If you’re a gay woman, it shouldn’t be an issue, and if you’re a straight woman…maybe he’s just not your type?
Just because we might all like women, doesn’t mean we going to find everything we see that’s a woman, attractive.
Look I dunno where most of you people are from, or what you look like, but I’ve been just friends with men for my entire life. I’m not a lesbian, I’m straight, but I do believe that men and women can be just friends without the sexual tension. There is a price to pay though, I don’t date because I’m just one of the guys and that makes me unattractive, but you know what? I got over it. Better to have friends then sex if you ask me. So I’ll continue to be friends with the guys and hang with them, and ya’ll can sit back and say it’s not possible.
Right now I have two best friends, One is a guy with no interest in me what so ever, and the other is a very Butch Bi-sexual that has no interest in me. It can be done.
No.
in certain scenario when we said ‘can’ because we don’t want to lose that connection in whatever way.
Fairly old blog, but I gotta say– yes, it’s possible. If you’re attracted to butches, you’re not attracted to EVERY butch you meet. If you’re attracted to men, you’re not attracted to ALL men. It’s VERY possible to meet people you only feel platonic affection for.
I’m a butch, but I don’t fancy femmes, so you’d be safe with me. Doubly so, as I don’t trespass on other people’s property either.
I think they can certainly be ‘just friends,’ maybe people forget that not all femmes are even attracted to butches…and there are certainly some butch chicks into other butch chicks.
I’d be totally cool hanging out with butch chicks…bc I’ve never really felt that kind of tension with them at all to begin with.
Of course they can just be friends. Despite sexual tension or romantic attraction, I think MOST women, (emphasis on not all), are sensible and would choose to not act upon those urges and stay within the acceptable boundaries of moral conduct. At least, any woman I could consider a FRIEND would. People who can’t be trusted to do that cant, you know, be trusted, and are therefore not friends.
Interesting stuff here. I say yes butches & femmes can be friends. I am a Femme in a long term relationship with a Butch & we have al kinds of friends. Although I must say that it is easier for her to make friends with the Butch lesbians we encounter. It must be the “Bois Club” lol…as most of them shy away from me. We are both friendly & outgoing but the Butches always warm up to her. I dunno maybe it is my redlipstick? LOL!
I was actually just thinking about the topic of women-loving-women being “just friends.” I think it’s entirely possible for a best friends relationship to exist without the sexual tension.
And I even think it’s possible to be just friends *with* the sexual tension. One thing is if you’re not each others type, or if you’re both on the same exact page on how you value the friendship (this is a very rare combo, but it exists)!