Why don’t femmes pay?
When we were up in Oregon on our road trip to visit Remi’s family, we stopped by her sister’s work. It’s a pretty small town and I’m pretty sure we were the only lesbian couple walking around town holding hands. After we left, her sister was swarmed by the people in her office. One girl got up the nerve to ask what everyone else was wondering, “When your sister and her ‘friend’ go out, who pays?”
Hahahaha …… that was the biggest question? Not, “Is your sister gay?” Because apparently that’s obvious. But who pays was the question of the day. To which her sister answered, “Ummm …. I think my sister pays.”
Which brings me to the topic of today’s blog, well actually, it’s a few things.
1. How come when we go out to eat, the waiter ALWAYS puts the bill in front of Remi.
2. Why do people automatically assume that she pays for everything and that I never pay for anything?
3. But more then that, why is that the case? Why does she insist on paying and why do most femme’s expect that their date picks up the bill?
When I first came out and started dating women, I never knew who was supposed to pay. So just to be polite and avoid that awkward few moments when you’re both looking at the bill in the middle of the table, I would snatch it up before she had the chance to.
But as time went on and I found my place within the lesbian community I became classified as “Femme.” I say that I became classified because I think these arbitrary labels we use are more given to us in some cases, then anything else. I didn’t set out and say, “I think I’m going to be a femme today. I want to be classified as high maintenance, wear lipstick even at home and never pay for another meal.” Nope, none of that ever crossed my mind.
I did realize however that other women who were already established within their own lesbian labels, saw me and immediately put me in whichever little box they thought I fit into, according to their own comfort zone. Which seemed to be “femme” in almost every case.
I realized that I was comfortable in this “role” most of the time and that whenever I wanted to be something that didn’t fit that label, the women in my life never really minded. With the exception of butches. In my experience, when a butch dates a femme, that femme better stay in her little box or else. But that’s another story.
Wow, when I get off on a tangent I can really get off track. Sorry ladies. Back to my original blog …. why don’t femmes pay?
Are the women who date femmes OK with this? Do they just expect it or do they actually enjoy it?
I’ve always felt that whoever controls the money controls a lot more then just that. How does this translate between women? When one woman is always the one who pays for things, does she control a larger portion of the relationship? Is she paying for power over her lover? Or am I just over thinking this?
One last note, even if femmes don’t pay for dinner, that doesn’t mean they don’t make up for it in other ways.
We’re well past dating, so all of our money is in joint accounts. So, I guess the question for us, the, is who pulls out the wallet? I guess Mo does, but it’s still not everytime. It may be just easier — her wallet is in her pocket and I normally have to go hunting for mine in my bag.
That said, I never drive.
LMAO …. that’s hilarious, I NEVER drive either! Huh.
Femme’s don’t pay because we spend all our money on looking good for our girlfriends! It ain’t cheap staying all dolled up, waxed, polished and ready for anything. Any good butch is happy to pay for dinner as long as her woman looks good on her arm.
I’m a femme and I pay for everything. But then again. I o;y date other femmes who may be femmier than I am.
I’m a femme and I don’t really pay for anything but that’s because I date STRONG butch women. Not just physically strong but strong personalities and in every way. They wouldn’t be caught dead letting a lady pay.
Yet another way you come off like a bitch Sasha. You’re either lying that you NEVER have to pay for anything or you’re really THAT good in bed. Well? Which one is it? I know enough of your ex’s comment on this damn thing. Maybe one of them will let us know, if they’re not too bitter to be honest. Because let’s face it Sasha, most of your ex’s seem to be pretty fucking angry at you.
I don’t kiss and tell but Sash, if you’re ever free for a night, give me a call. From what I remember you’re worth the price of admission. LOL. And I’ll open the door for you
Wow, that’s pretty low of SheKnowsMe to say something like that. Ifyou really did ever sleep with Sasha I can see why she’s not with you anymore. What an ass.
Anonymous, I didn’t mean I NEVER pay for anything. But the reality is that I’m with a woman who usually insists on paying when we go out. I don’t know why she’s like that, but I don’t mind. Would you? But I also try really hard to take care of her in other ways and now that we live together that’s a little easier in the day to day things I can do to show her how much I appreciate her.
I’m a strong butch and I wouldn’t be caught dead letting one of you little girls pay for anything on my watch. I date femmes because I love everything about them. I love the way they look, smell, taste and the helplessness I see in them. I tried to date Sasha because she puts off a helpless femme in distress vibe. She’s even written about it and I think thats fucking hot as hell and so do a lot of strong women. Who wouldn’t want to come to the rescue of something like that?! I’m happy to be repaid in the bedroom. Any helpless femmes reading this??? Hit me back.
I’m not a butch but I’m not a femme by a long shot. Somehow I always end up paying for everything too. But I don’t mind. I like being able to court a woman and make her feel special. Maybe I’m just a hopeless romantic but I even open car doors for my dates. I think if a woman deserves to be taken out by me, she deserves to be treated right. That’s just me.
Hot femmes don’t pay. Ugly ones usually do.
I think that whoever pays does have more power in the relationship. If you let Remi pay or maybe I should say if Remi WON’T let you pay then she has more power in the relationship than you do. But maybe you’re OK with that? Are you one of those women that needs to be taken care of?
I always pay. If I couldn’t pay for my date, I wouldn’t ask her out. It’s perfectly fine that a femme doesn’t expect to pay. But she should expect to put out later in the night. Truth hurts ladies. But you know I’m right.
Sasha, if you were my woman you’d NEVER pay for a thing EVER. I don’t blame Remi for picking up the tab. She probably knows what she’s got when she takes you home so don’t sweat it that she pays for shit. From what you write it seems like you try to show her you care and appreciate her, that’s probably all she wants. If she felt like you didn’t appreciate her I’m sure she wouldn’t be so fast to take care of you in those ways. It all works out in the end sweetie, just sit back and look pretty. That’s your job. We’re ok with it. you should be too.
I’m a lesbian trapped in a man’s body and from it sounds like reading your blog you’re just in a relationship as if you were with a man. The lady just doesn’t pay. Not saying that Remi isn’t a lady too. I’m sure she is, since you’re both women. But my point is, she’s a FUCKIN MARINE. You’re a belly dancer. HELLOOOO????
I’m a femme and I’d still end up paying if I went out with you Sasha. I don’t know why, I don’t even know you but I think if I asked you out I would pay. Usually that’s how I figure out who pays. Who does the asking does the paying. I bet you never do the asking. So yo u never pay.
Pretty femmes don’t pay for dinner or drinks and that sucks if you’re not a femme and you don’t have a great paying job. But it’s just the way it is. It has to do with self-respect. If I only had twenty bucks in my wallet I’d spend it on a girl before I let her know I didnt have any money. I don’t want her to think I’m weak or a loser. So I always pay. I’m not a butch either. I’m a tomboi or whatever. I have short hair, I don’t wear makeup but I’m not a butch BUTCH. I still expect to pay on dates. That’s just the way I am.
If Remi pays for everything or mostly everything you should let her. That’s part of her identity. It is with me anyways. If a girl tries to pay for me I get insulted. I feel like she thinks I can’t do it. Which is really a turn off. But a huge turn on is when a hot chick lets me do something nice for her. I wouldn’t do it if I didn’t want to and I bet it’s the same with Remi.
I think it’s hot you talk about topic others would shy away from. You should go out with me. Did I forget to tell you, I’m a Marine too. I know how you love Marines.
I’m not exactly a butch.. but my feeling on this is… like the previous comments… I am a big romantic at heart.. if I like a woman.. enough to ask her out.. I would pay for everything.. picking her up.. meeting her at the door with a couple of daisies and a wink.. putting my hand in the small of her back as we walked into the restaurant.. she would feel special.. I wouldn’t expect anything in return.. but good conversation.. a good first or second date.. lol the sex comes later.
I never paid for anything when we were dating. Uh does that mean you were the butch, Sasha? My my how things change. Guess what, I still don’t pay for anything. Guess I’ve just got it like that. Guess you were sort of butch in those suits you used to wear.
I’m a Marine have been for 8 years. I would have to say that as a Marine I would never allow you to pay for anything. It would go against everything I’m proud of being. If I ask a woman out, it’s because I want to treat her right. Not because I need her to pay for me. That’s bullshit. If your gf is a Marine she probably agrees with me. However I don’t get how she can let you dance. I wouldn’t be able to do that.
If it meant a chance at getting in your panties I would whip out the big bucks right quick. believe that.
Because pillow princesses never pay.
I don’t feel like a butch but I must look like one because everyone else calls me one. I always pay and it’s fine with me. If I get to take out a beautiful woman I’m more then happy to pay for everything. You Miss Sasha are very beautiful. I’m sure that women are happy to buy you dinner or whatever your little heart desires if they think it’ll get them in the door. I would. Remi’s a lucky bastard.
You always paid for me when we went out. Guess that gave you the idea that you had the right to be a bitch. Maybe Remi pays to keep your ass in check.
Sasha, not to get too personal and you don’t have to answer but I’ve read ALL your blogs and didn’t Remi move into YOUR house? I’m curious as how the household expenses work out between you two? Does she pay all the rent? Or do you split it? Because that could weigh heavy on her if she does. Or do you pay the rent since it was your place to begin with? If it’s like that then you are contributing equally. It all depends. Relationships are more then the dinner check. I’m sure you two will work out your places. It just takes a little time to fall into place.
I’m curious like Avid. How are the bills split? If things are truly 50-50 then you, sasha, have no need to worry .. right?
The first 2 things that popped into my mind were: • It’s an engrained “social norm” for men to pay when taking a woman out to eat. Thus, the tab goes to the more mascueline one. • It’s a basic “Chivalrous Notion” sending the message, “I will take care of you”. I’m a soft-butch with a generous nature; however, if my date or gf wanted to pay, I allow them that opportunity. Because think about it, don’t we all want to be able to “treat” another in kind ? I do. Also, that reciprocity keeps a “power struggle” from emerging.
“In my experience, when a butch dates a femme, that femme better stay in her little box or else. But that’s another story.”
Wow, really?! That sucks. Anyone, regardless of label should NOT feel like a kept woman! Yikes!
I’m a soft butch/futch who enjoys paying for dinner and finds it ADORABLE when my femme date pays for me. Just because I prefer Nikes over heels doesn’t mean that I don’t want to be treated sometimes. Plus the femme side of me is always hopeful someone will buy me flowers every now and then or do similar romantic gestures towards me.
Is it really too much to ask that we all recognize a balance in ourselves when it comes to butch/femme dynamics? I shave, wax, etc etc just like the next femme but prefer to shop in the men’s section at H&M. Go figure.
And if any of you nice femme need a date, hit me up, lol.
Thanks for an always entertaining and insightful blog Sasha.
wow sash seems like you really struck a nerve!! these butches need to enroll in a leykis 101 crash course?! pay for a date? really? girls will “play nice” as long as you treat them the way they want to be treated….you gotta be a jerk to them. nice guys finish last all the time; money or no money. ps loved the comment the point is she’s a fucking marine and you’re a belly dancer hahaha
Ok wow, didn’t expect such a strong response to this particular blog. But I will address a couple comments. Avid and Dawg wanna know how the household expenses are split. While at first I felt that was a little too personal, I quickly realized that I regularly blog about things that are “too personal” so why be a hypocrite now? ….. So here it goes ….. I believe I’ve blogged about it before anyways, I do happen to own my own little house. So I think it would be extremely tacky of me to ask my GF to pay me rent. Of course she’s offered to kick in something on a regular basis towards the bills, but I won’t let her. Not saying that I won’t let her at some future date far in the future if I ever really need it. But right now I’ve got the house and that part (utilities and what not handled) so no we don’t share those expenses. …. but it doesn’t change the fact that when we go out (which is A LOT) she still pays for everything and I NEVER have to drive.
I think it’s kind of silly how lesbians are so ingrained into “their roles”. I mean, if you’re butch and that’s your thing, fine. I’m sure you’ll have a lot of women out there who will let you pay for them. Sounds like living life out in a drill team (or dance!) routine. Maybe focusing on all the little rituals (sexual, monetary, etc.) of these roles provides a needed distraction from the real task: having a relationship. Everyone likes distraction, but it eventually creates problems, not solves them.
I think it’s silly to base who pays on butch or femme. Part of why I would never marry if it were legal is that there is a sort of control in joining bank accounts, in allowing your lover unfettered access to your money. If I’m doing really well, then yes, I enjoy paying, I enjoy being able to treat someone (I’d probably be classified as a very soft butch). But even if I were rolling in dough, having to pay every. single. time. can start to be extremely draining. If the person is generous in other ways, of course, then it’s not as big of a deal. I think it really just comes down to how much give and take there is. I’ve been “gentlemanly” before and bought drinks, for example, expecting her to get the next round, and when she didn’t though I was perfectly polite I was mentally calculating how many meals I’d have to skip the next day to make up for it. What really gets to me is being in a relationship where the other person is making a ton and insists on going nice places but never pays. I think it should be based on the two people’s resources, not butch or femme.
If I had a woman that looked like you in my bed, I would be happy to go to work every day and come home and hand you my paycheck. What is the point in having money if you’re alone? All I ever wanted and still do is a beautiful and kind woman to spend my life with. I’m more then happy to support her financially if that means she loves me, takes care of me and doesn’t leave. I don’t care of that sounds pathetic to some of you, but i’m a bit older and wiser now and I’ve made a lot of mistakes. I know what a good woman’s worth and a beautiful woman that’s good, well that’s really rare and she’s worth all I can give her to keep her happy because having her would make me happy.
So to any of your butches who are lucky enough to have a lovely companion by your side don’t be so stupid to think that there’s not at least 10 other butches waiting in line for you to slack on your job of taking care of her and she knows it.
Just go to work with a smile and give her what she needs. It’s worth it to have someone to come home to at the end of the day.
I am of those girls that move like ballet dancers, i am as girly as it can get. And i date a masculine girl…ok, a butch, but i don’t like to call her that, cuz her hart is soft and sweet, and that tag sounds rough to me.
So we have a deal: If i propose to eat out, i pay, and if she does, she pays.
I like to pay for her, i did it a lot the first year, but it gets expensif, so we came up with this deal, it works. She doesn’t mind if i pay, i think it’s her way of being the girl in the relationship without compromizing her masculine personality.
Femmes love to do this things too. I would be offended if my lady payed for me all the time. I’m her man just as much even if i don’t looke like one. I have a pride as well.
I let her do other some things for me anyways, like opening doors and holding my hand when i get out of the car. I even wear a dress to partys cuz i know she will dress pants and will get offended if i do two.
What counts, it’s that at the end, everything is paid equal. I paid diner, she paids next time, or the movie, or the rental of a movie, or the coffe the next morning.
I wouldn’t like to make her pay every time i feel like going out, money doesn’t fall down with the rain. So if i want something i pay for it. What if i want to go somewhere that she can’t afford, of if she feels like eating at a big restauret and i’m tight that month? I pay for her when i want to go somewhere with her.
Except on birthdays, but i think ahead so i can pay her what ever she wants.
Happiness doesn’t come from what a woman can buy for me, it comes from the time spent together… I feel sad for those that feel like they have to make their girl a princess because it’s not the way it goes, we are lesbians, no mater how masculine a girl is, she should be treated like a princess two. It’s two spoild princesses together, not just one.
I want someone to love me and not count on what she gives me. But i need her to accept and EXPECT the same treatment.
I love my girlfriend for that, she lets me be her wife, her man, her mom and her daughter all at the same time. I feel girly when she opens a jar of Jam of me, and strong when she asks me to repair something arround the house. Life is about balance.
Femme’s don’t pay because that’s just the way the world works babe. We pay because we want to and it makes us feel good to be able to do that. We don’t pay because you expect it or because we “should” we pay because we work hard to be able to provide for our women so just enjoy it. Treat us right in your way and we’ll treat you right in ours. It’s a balance.
You know….I agree that this thing boils down to resources. I know when I dated my ex girlfriend (we were both equally femme) she would pay most times and that was simply because I was a broke ass college student and she was rolling in the doe working full-time. I really don’t think her paying gave her any more power in the relationship.. but I think her age did (she was 5 years older than me)?
Now that I’m single, I’m just an avid believer in going dutch. Everybody should just hold their own weight which is why women should date women of similar caliber. Date someone that makes as much as you, or that is similarly situated as you..makes things run a lot smoother!
Well now an interesting one. I have to say its varied for me. With my last relationship, we usually split bills. But I mostly drove. Previous 2 relationships, I paid (and drove). One before the, SHE paid (we both drove). And before that again, SHE paid AND drove.
Confused? I hope so.
Ive seen you naked and wet …. in my pool
…. I know why you don’t have to pay. lol.
LMFAO this shit is funny considering I just tried to buy you a book today at B&N and I had JUST met you! But you looked so sad and I wanted to cheer you up and make you smile.
But seriously, you and women like you don’t pay because you don’t have to. As perfectly demonstrated earlier today before I even knew you wrote this. How funny.
Why don’t femmes pay or why doesn’t Sasha pay? Because women like you never HAVE to pay. There’s always, ALWAYS going to be someone, man, woman, butch or boi willing and wanting to pick up the tab to make you smile or make you stay. Period.
Funny this came up on top of your blog and I clicked into it. I’m femme and I like androgynous/soft butch/butch women. A straight female friend of mine asked me the other day “but who pays?” So far, since coming out, I’ve been on a few dates and each of my dates has been in the same boat as me – unemployed and/or struggling (I live in NYC btw, it’s not hard to be struggling here), so we’ve split the bill.
I joked to my friend that “my budget really wishes I was straight”, acknowledging that men usually pay for the bill. Granted, I HATED that because I always felt like a cheap whore, expected to put out for the price of a dinner I didn’t really even want anyway.
I’m not sure what would happen if I started dating someone who could pay for me regularly. I’m unemployed right now, so I would have no choice but to let them pay. However, my independence is so important to me and I can’t imagine if I was gainfully employed how I would feel if my girl paid for me all the time (especially as I hate cooking and I’m not very domestic).
The paying question really does create a power struggle, which was easily answered in the past by male-female roles, meaning women didn’t work so they had no choice but to let a man pay for them. As we women are able to work now (and be openly gay), parsing this is so hard. I don’t have enough experience with dating women to really answer this or counter it right now, but I do wonder about it because as much as I love being femme and having a masculine woman as my love, I also love being fiercely independent and owing nothing to no one, especially someone I’m sleeping with.
i’ve been date a girl for two years, that i’m head over heels for, but it bothers me that she never offers to pick up the bill or to even go dutch. I also cover all house bills. Am I an ass for letting this bother me?
I don’t think you’re an ass for letting it bother you. As indicated by the previous comments, some people prefer that way of life. If it’s not for you, it’s not for you, and I think you’d be completely within your right to renegotiate how the finances are spent (i.e. if you’re expected to pay for the house bills, she pays for eating out- or you split the house bills in such a way that makes you both comfortable).
@WWG – I really love your honesty in all things said above. You are truly special – Woman! How are things going with you now? Are you ok?
My 2 cents: I am (very) new to Butch-Femme relationships, so new that I have yet to date a butch. (They seem to be scarce around here.) But on my experience with dating, it was usually dutch or he paid. But ethier way, it was arranged before hand. (to get rid of that awkward moment.lol) When starting to get to know someone, I prefer paying for my own stuff. If my ‘special friend’ is having financial difficulties, I will insist on paying for my stuff, and sometimes paying for both.
Yeah, I am femme,(what I like to call moderately femme.)and mostly bottom/sub, but I am just as protective of my ‘special friend’ as they are of me, including financial diffuculties, got no problems to eating fast food for dinner and going to the $1 movies….(as long as that isn’t all we do on our dates. I can be a cheap date,but I also like my date having an imagination as to what to do.
As for putting out….lol that’s the number 1 reason why it is arranged before hand who pays, unless I am sure that I want to have ANY sort of intimate activities with my date,I insist on going dutch.
Stuck here in Michigan, scarcely any butches around and the few I meet are:not into femmes, prefer the high/ultra femmes,or are bottoms. Nothing wrong with any of those, *grins* Just makes it more difficult.
Anyone in Michigan/Great Lakes area, give me a shout out!
starmaiden26@yahoo.com
I think who pays has a lot to do with how you were raised.. I think it is cute we have to try and define this when everyone else basically has a manual to follow based on societal “norms.” I think if you are a butch and you have looked up to or were raised by strong male figures, you are going to fall into a “like-father-like-son” cycle. It is the rubric you follow to know you are doing a great job. On the opposite end of the spectrum most femmes are proud and independent women who tend to admire or have modeled themselves after the same. Breaking the sexist barriers of yesterday has done wonderful things for women. I am worried however that chivalry is being over looked. The masculine pillar in the relationship will pay….. For everything….. End of discussion. If you let us open doors for you… And carry the heavy stuff…. Then what is wrong with letting us pay? I appreciate the reach toward the purse or whatever you carry, and I love to see you bite your lower lip and say I’ll pay you back later wink**
For me personally I have worked hard to attain the intellectual, professional and emotional stability that allows me to compete in the wild kingdom called the dating scene. If I were a peacock I would show you the biggest sexiest feathers you have ever seen and you would melt and moisten at it and allow me to mate with you. But I don’t have feathers I have a big sexy debit card and I will spend it like crazy to show off for you. It’s a compliment. And for the record we should be paying for the primp work too… Everyone covers the big stuff;vacations, weddings, BILLS, homes, cars. But dates are butch domain. And it is an honor. Xoxo to all of you powerful femmes.
Dang, Rocky. I just melted at those peacock feathers. With your philosophies you should have no problem whatsoever in finding a femme. Why are you still single?
As a femme, I can say that I have never paid for a date. First of all, for some reason, the food server always places the bill next to her. I have tried tp pay a few times to be polite, but the butches grabbed the bill and told me in no uncertain terms that they were paying. I guess maybe it makes them feel good to pay. From my end, it makes me feel very flattered, treasured, and feminine. In a way, we both invest in the situation in our own ways. I spend hours getting ready with hair, makeup and just the right outfit, trying my best to look my absolute prettiest for her. By paying the bill, I guess she is expressing her appreciation for my efforts while pounding her chilvalrous chest. Plus, I can tell you that watching her pay gives me little butterflies in my tummy and warm tingles somewhere else. So, by the time we reach the car, there is a good chance that her chivalry will lead to a sweet thank you kiss from me.
I am a soft butch and would like a femme (but not too femme)but one who gives and receives in a mutural manner. I partner in every way in all areas. i think its about us or we not you or I and we take care of life together.