And she’s back 
Everyone’s favorite politically incorrect butch, Raye is back and from the looks of it, a few of you may have some explaining to do .
My less than politically correct previous blog set off a firestorm of controversy and I wanted to address some assumptions and statements that were made by the commentators…
Let’s look at some things in a realistic and not idealistic fashion for a second shall we? Would you not say that in most hetero relationships, men are providers, maybe not the sole providers but for the sake of argument MOST of them are not stay at home dads nor do they spend as much time with the kids or taking care of the house? Men in general are not very good helpmates but they sure expect women to be to them. And perhaps I should spell it out again I am sure it will be disregarded as it has in every comment above) but for the hell of it I will type it in bold THIS IS NOT ALWAYS THE CASE BUT MOST OF THE TIME IT IS. Deny it if you want but if men were being nurturers,caregivers and homemakers then a lot more commercials would be aimed at them. Advertisers cater to their audience. I’m just sayin’.
Let’s look at this in a hypothetical situation. Let’s say you are a straight mom and comfortable running your household, whether you are a joint earner or stay at home mom or make more money than your husband. You like your clothes and shoes left alone and don’t particularly want to share them. You know where everything in your house is because after working 40-50 hours a week, you come home and devise a plan that that makes it work. It may be organized chaos but you have a system and it is yours. You don’t really have time to mow or edge the grass because you have a kid tugging at the leg of your work-attire dress slacks saying “I am hungry mommy” and another one calling you for help with homework. In the midst of all of this, you are horny as hell and would just like a moment’s peace with a glass of wine and a bubble bath but you really have to get to the grocery store because there is one roll of toilet paper left in the bathroom. So you toss the little one a pack of cheese crackers, tell the older one to hang on until after dinner and head for the front table to grab your car keys when the heel on your new shoe snaps as it catches on the dog’s chew toy.
Hubby comes home from work and yells “what’s for dinner?” and flops onto the couch to watch tv.
Sound familiar to anyone? Am I portraying some little weakling that needs protection? What arguments would ensure if she was to get into a relationship with someone like her who is used to doing those things her way and filling the very same roles?
What is funny to me about all of your comments, is that you all have made scathing comments to me about making generalizations but you have made some pretty offensive assumptions of your own. What makes you think that a butch is sexist or controlling? I mean you act like when I say dominant and submissive that I am talking about slapping your bitch around. And I will have you know that I know quite a few butchies that let the femme rule the roost. And even though I specifically mentioned that butch and femme is about highlighting the different strengths of all women and those being complimentary to each other, you all assumed that all butches rule the house and that being with one would be like living with a sexist man. You also act like being femme means a woman is some little lap dog who shuts her mouth and does what she is told. I never said anything of the sort. I made mention of butchies being mechanically minded and having masculine traits that compliment a femme’s feminine traits. But YOU are the ones who defined those traits. Not me.
In fact the ONLY thing I pointed out is that the opposite personalities would compliment… I never said anyone needed taking care of although I would hope both take care of and protect each other. But I will also point out that it was me the butch who pulled my girlfriend and son behind me, squared up and stood between an unmarked van of strangers and my girlfriend in a dark parking lot at 10pm when they approached us to ask for directions. My femme would gladly have done the same for me but a man would not have taken her as seriously… sorry but thems the breaks ladies. But if a woman was assaulting me and I refused to hit back, I know quite a few femmes who would pull off their heels and fuck a bitch up to protect me. Y’ALL are the ones making generalizations about butches and femmes. I never said that butch was the more dominant. I did say that all relationships have specific roles. All I said was that straight, femme women who have had a workable relationship with a man would usually work better with a butch because their opposite personalities would usually compliment each other. Yall took that and ran with it making mad assumptions of your own while vilifying me for it.
I’ve read the several posts on this topic and the issue is that you’re discussing personality types more so than gender/sexual orientation issues, and it is too difficult to tie personality types to self-identification.
Furthermore, while I understand what you’re trying to say, I’ll be blunt and say your point so far has been poorly communicated.
Here’s what I got out of it – a woman who identifies herself as femme, who is used to a traditional style marriage with a man, who *enjoyed* such a breakdown of roles, will likely be more apt to enjoy and seek out a relationship with a gay woman who believes in/enjoys traditional roles, because it is complementary to her own style of living, and oftentimes, said gay woman who enjoys such traditional roles is a woman who identifies herself as butch.
Or, even more simply put – people who like traditional roles in their relationships will seek out someone who feels the same, regardless if their partner is of the opposite sex or same sex.
I do understand what you’re saying about seeking a complimentary person in a relationship – someone who is strong where you are less so, and vice versa. However, I think where your argument fails is equating that specifically to traditional butch/femme roles. It is the basis of most relationships to seek out a complimentary personality to your own.
I am a femme who is fiercely independent, quite strong and intelligent, and I seek a woman who can match me in those traits. I prefer a woman who is comfortable being androgynous/butch because I don’t feel comfortable expressing my masculine side to such an extent. But I have a career and am not at all traditional. Then again, I’ve never had a successful relationship with a man, so I am aware I am not the specific style of woman you are addressing in these posts.
See, some how, I “got” this the first and then second time around, and maybe that’s because I don’t know that I really have the attachment and aversion to label phobia I keep seeing online.
I get, in principle, the idealism behind wanting to abolish all labels and categories. It’s the practical application of that ideal that falls short.
Labels are language, and without language, we’re hamstringing our communication.
To my right I’ve got a standard door like what’s on the inside of most houses separating rooms, beyond that in the hallway is a pair of folding doors that open up into the cranny that holds my washer and dryer. In my bedroom there’s double sliding doors to my closet. Outside, I’ve got sliding metal frame and glass panels that slide to allow access in and out of my sunroom, and even whackier, my garage has a pair of doors segmented into joints that move on tracks vertically…each of these things are still doors though, right?
And if I was talking to you and mentioned that I broke the handle on my garage door, you would know what I was saying…which would be a whole helluva a lot less complicated than saying I broke the and on the door that has four segments that are jointed and run up a track vertically in the front of my garage.
See? That’s way fucking cumbersome. So is trying to describe someone who does happen to fit somewhere in the broad the conventional ideas of what a “butch” or “femme” lesbian means without actually using those words. Obviously, we’re all mostly lesbians or bi here (hi to our straight friends, sorry if this post has gotten way boring). What “lesbian” describes is as wide and varied in actual identity as the different kind of doors in existance.
Sasha, I love your site. I love there are so many intelligent, well-spoken contributors who apply themselves in their thoughtful posts and comments. I learn something from everyone of here. Every day. Thank you for providing this forum. It enriches my own thought process which shapes and molds me to be a better person.
Raye, I saw your point from the first post. I didn’t comment because it didn’t strike a nerve in me the way it did in others. I agree that relationships work when there exists a synergy between the partners to accomplish common and established goals between them.
Way back in year one, people joined together in community in order to survive. Males were the stronger faster and so they explored and hunted and gathered, not so much specifically for their partners, but for the benefit of the entire tribe. In much the same communal vein, females bore and reared children, prepared food, and had domestic chores which were less strenuous than the men because differences in their physiology made them less strong and able bodied. With the exception of a few remote tribes who still live in keeping with their ancestral code, our world has evolved to the point where our independant survival doesn’t depend on these male/female roles. It was a long time in coming, just think of the thousands and thousands of years, and only just within the last century have women been able to break free from being cast in the dutifully domestic role. That being said, I can understand why this is a sensitive issue for some. I think what works for any couple is as individual as the two people in the relationship. Some women, like Sasha, love the traditional female roel. Not so much submissive, per se, but more domestic. Feathering the nest to make it nice and soft for Remi who works hard to provide for the both of them. Remi, it seems, is satisfied to be the traditional provider, and probably really appreciates being able to relax in the cushy comfort that Sasha, no doubt, prepares for her. There is nothing wrong with this picture, but some women would prefer that their partner to take an equal share in providing the income and sharing the domestic duties. When it comes to the bedroom, there are as many scenarios and power structures as there are people on this earth. I bet there are absolutely straight couples where the woman, who is a domestic diva during the day, dons a strap on and fucks her man, who squeals but is the epitome masculine strength every where except the bedroom.
Melissa used a good analogy about doors, but I wouldn’t stop at equating lesbians with the doors for the purpose of making her point. To me, lesbians are people, and so people would be a better euphemism for the doors. Lesbians would be the garage door, and straight women the closet door, gay men could be the folding utility doors, and so on. Colorful descriptives have been used for straight women (she’s a girly-girl, a tomboy, etc), so I don’t see why those types of descriptions can’t be applied to lesbians without causing such a flap. If on Monday, a lesbian who is butch in attitude, (which is to say expresses what we have come to know as masculine energy), there is absolutely no reason why on Friday, she can’t be femme, (which is what we know as feminine energy). We all have both energies, and it is a personal decision, though not always conscious, as to how we each express ourselves to the world. I admire women who aren’t afraid or ashamed of their masculinity, and I respect men who aren’t shy about getting in touch with their feminine selves. Gays have had a difficult time being misunderstood by straights because they challenge traditional thinking concerning “roles” and gender. Be gentle with those who are in your community by being open minded about the things which have confused hetero mindsets. If you look between the obvious colors in a rainbow, there are many more colors to discover.
Well put Melissa. I could not have said it better myself. And I make no apologies for how I worded things. What IS interesting to me is the ugly stereotyping of butchies made by some lesbians on this page.
“THIS IS NOT ALWAYS THE CASE BUT MOST OF THE TIME IT IS. Deny it if you want but if men were being nurturers,caregivers and homemakers then a lot more commercials would be aimed at them. Advertisers cater to their audience.”
I feel my ___ (having trouble identifying my emotions this morning – i apologize
) with this post boils down to these few statements in the beginning rather than what the actual substance of the post is about.
1. “this is not always the case but most of the time” This statement is impossible to make. You do not know all or most of the cases – therefore you can not make this assumption. It’s really that simple. You know what you have been exposed to in your city/culture/family + what you have been shown through media/art outlets. In the grand scheme of communities, family, etc out there.. that is a far stretch from most or all.
2. “advertisers cater to their audience” this goes back to the question of is the media following the people or is the people following the media? I’d argue that in smaller communities where people are in touch with community members (think.. small town with a local newspaper) than yes, the media would follow the people. However, in such a HUGE country with millions community members, it’s more the other way around. Take doing the laundry for example. I’d be willing to be that the actual ration of men to women doing laundry is a hell of a lot more equal than it was 50-60 years ago. Single men, gay men, hell just men who want their laundry done.. however, most laundry commercials you see on television ALWAYS show a female doing the chore. why? not because advertisers cater to their audience. Advertisers have a lot of power over the subliminal thoughts of those who are watching.
I guess my comment isn’t really so much about the roles and dynamics anymore. It’s just a comment that you NEED to be able to accept and respect.. take on the responsibility almost.. to not unintentionally promote restricting guidelines on peoples lives. Because there are PLENTY of people/things/corporations out there to do that for us, we don’t need to do it to each other.
K.. i’m done now