Guest Lesbian

Melting Away Stones: A Butch Perspective

By Guest Writer, Raye

A lot of assumption, arguments, and judgments have been made about the phenomenon of “stone butches” over the years and being newly single and approaching the idea of new, unfamiliar lovers, I was contemplating this very subject the other day. While I am not a completely “stone” butch, I am pretty close to one. I mesh well with a pillow princess femme. And there are many reasons for this. I will attempt to explain them here.

The truth is that the old school butch is very often a stone butch or some variation of this. At the very least, we are less likely to want to receive as much as we want to give. Many people have debated the reasons for this but I think it boils down to a core concept. You see, butches in their purest forms, are very masculine. We spend a lot of time defending that masculinity. It is a source of contention among LGBT and straight people alike. People whether they are gay or straight are always debating where we should fall on the gender spectrum whether it is their business or not. Butch masculinity is the subject of ridicule and debate among both gay and straight people. Many (ignorant) lesbians reject us outright because of our masculinity and question why they would not just date a man if they were going to date a butch. Men fear or loathe us because of the perceived challenge to their masculinity. Straight girls just fear us because we are strange to them but the ones who are open to us are often (ironically) more understanding of how to handle us than gay girls. They are used to countering the masculine energy and usually go with what they know.

Most of us do not identify as male nor female, or alternately identify as a masculine female but we usually do not take well to people who try to feminize us. And some of you may baulk at that at first but, if you really step back and ask yourself how often you fought against wearing dresses and putting on makeup and having boyfriends when all your family members were taunting you about needing to have one, you will remember and recognize what I mean.

Most of us spent most of our lives fighting against people trying to feminize us. And often, a femme lover will mistakenly assume that what gets her off is what gets our juices flowing (pun intended and it stays.) But what she wants to do is often something that we find puts us in a position to be viewed or treated as femme in our minds which is foreign and uncomfortable to us. It can be extremely uncomfortable for a butch if we are not with someone we trust completely. (And everyone knows what happens with sex when you feel uncomfortable, pressured or out of place.) When we do not respond the way she expects, she feels inadequate and frustrated and often will give up trying altogether. Then we feel guilty and rejected and the vicious cycle continues.

 

I have explained this concept of trying to rob our masculinity, to allied straight girls or even bisexuals with more acceptance and understanding from them than from hardcore lesbians in general. The bisexual, butch-leaning curious femmes seem to understand that I am fundamentally different from them and don’t attempt to change me. Instead they pull upon their experiences with men and try to use words that are more masculine to entice or seduce me. Bisexual or butch-leaning curious femmes are more likely to let me have my way and not try to force me to be something I am not. They are more likely to accept the oddity of genderfucking and use masculine terms to address me or masculine sexual desires to tempt me.

 

Ironically the present day feminist lesbian is at great odds with a masculine woman. It used to be that feminist lesbian women embraced masculine women as a rebellion of the established gender privilege. Now it seems that we have come full circle and many of our own are now “putting us in our place” and admonishing us for not being more feminine in the streets and in the bedroom.  I blame pop culture and the media for this assault on our persona. I personally believe even lesbians are being conditioned to shun the masculine women who dare to challenge what a male-dominated society expects a woman to be.

 

 

A secure butch that trusts you to respect her masculine boundaries will at some point allow you to explore her. But she has to know that you are not trying to make her into something that she is not. And that something is you. She chose you because she was attracted to your feminine qualities, not because she wanted to emulate them. And there are some things about even a stone butch that are deliciously feminine. But only those who are willing to peel back the layers and pay attention to who she is at her core and not try to challenge that core, will be the ones who get to see it. There are things you can do to acknowledge the genderneutrality of her persona and still get to touch and taste her. But you have to be willing to expand your ideas of what is acceptable sexual behavior a bit in order to learn what those things are. If you are curious about the specifics, I am contemplating another blog.

This article has 65 comments

  1. littlechef

    So well put. Some people give my girlfriend a lot of crap for dating a bi girl for so long but she’s told me that a big part of that is me not expecting her to be anything in particular. All the other women she’s dated have expected her to be on one side of the spectrum. I don’t. She’s gay and gender fluid. Some days she out feminines me (not a difficult task realistically) and other days she basically identifies as male. And quite frankly I love her and want her to be comfortable and happy with herself. I don’t care how she identifies or what labels she uses, what’s most attractive to me is her confidence which is affected by how free she feels to express herself.

  2. Sasha

    Raye, this may be my most favorite post of your ever to date!

    It’s so well written, so articulate and insightful. And I see a LOT of Remi in it, even though she says she’s “not butch” she reacts much the same way as you describe. I want to read this to her when she gets home from work!

    And I love butches, their energy is sooooo sexy to me. It’s nothing like being with a man. In many ways it’s a hyper masculine energy. More then being with a man. It’s intense and almost magical in how unique and amazing it can be.

  3. Eve

    Thanx for describing it so clearly ^^ i’m experiencing everything u write here but dunno how to express it to make people understand.

  4. Jul

    Raye –

    Great post.

    I have a question…you said, “Most of us do not identify as male nor female, or alternately identify as a masculine female.”

    I totally understand people who identify as more masculine females (just as with more ‘femme’ females) – but if not identifying in either direction (male or female), would many simply consider themselves androgynous, a ‘third’ gender, genderqueer, or trans (not to rob anyone of their masculine female identity)?

    I know butch lesbians have said that they would rather give bc receiving can ‘remind them’ of their femaleness which they didn’t feel connected to…are they in the minority?

    Just trying to be sure to grasp this correctly. My understanding has always been that it has always seemed a more ‘masculine female,’ but I’d like to understand better – especially if I am wrong. Anyone can feel free to weigh in on this.

    Thanks… hope this wasn’t absolutely confusing.

  5. Jazmenha

    Well written. I HATE the mentality of ” why they would not just date a man if they were going to date a butch”. I sincerely wholeheartedly am attracted to the energy, look each of butch women. I think society is VERY judgmental against butch women without stopping and thinking (what society should be thinking about butch lesbians)- damn now that is someone who REALLY knows herself, knows would she is to her core,
    receives a shitload of ignorant discrimination yet her bravery and self confidence remain and she is fucking sexy as
    hell (ok I added the last part in) but the points are there. Of course there are total assholes who are butch I do not
    live in la-la land (God I wish I did!) but there are assholes who are femme, straight, guy, etc) Everyone is just trying to make it through and if they can remain true to themselves through it all then THAT alone speaks volumes of their ownstrength. I am curious to learn about the history, struggles and successes in history of butch women, any good book recommendations on that? Jaz

  6. Sasha

    Jul –

    From a few butch friends and past dating experience, some butches called “butch” a gender in itself. I also think I read that somewhere, can’t recall which book though. So, Raye, have you ever heard that before?

  7. Jul

    Sasha –

    Really interesting…and very cool and self-defined. I wonder if anyone has heard of it too.

    The gender issue is fascinating, because as society is focused on a binary (either/or male or female) system, there are so many options to see how people take control to define themselves.

  8. Raye

    Jul, there is a very distinct difference between being butch and being trans. I do not feel as though I was born into the wrong body per se… although I think I would really enjoy the feeling of having my cock inside a woman. Other than that, my physical anatomy does not feel alien to me. Honestly, knowing how much better my orgasms are capable of being with female anatomy, I am kinda glad I am not male. But as far as gender identity goes, I did say in the blog that to me, butch is its own gender. It is not the same as female. It is distinctly NOT male. I believe that butches are not necessarily “androgynous” as androgynous is of an indeterminate gender. To some people my gender may not easily be determined, but to me and those who understand me, they know my gender and they know my gender is of and unto itself. Butch is different than anything else you know. And I don’t mind being called sir or ma’am. Neither one is offensive to me because I know that people are limited in their understanding of me unless they know me intimately. I am very protective of the butch identity because I do not believe it is fluid. Nor do I believe that it is undefined. I just think that some people misunderstand what it means to be butch. I think if you are butch, you know it. You don’t view yourself as male nor do you see yourself as female. You are in a sort of limbo between the sexes and you are comfortable with that. I know that I am I don’t need to be either or and I am NEVER outwardly feminine. That would be awkward as hell. Butch is a masculine energy. We have feminine traits at times but we are masculine. If you are not masculine, you are not butch. Period. Argue with me all you want but I will shake my head and laugh at you. A butch knows she is masculine. The only people who argue with that point are people who aren’t butch. It is ok if you aren’t butch, but don’t claim to be a feminine butch, that’s bullshit. Butch is clearly defined and you know it when you see it. Watching a chick with short hair walk around in women’s clothing and calling her butch just shows your ignorance of who and how butches really are. There is a difference between dominant and butch. Just because you are dominant does not make you butch. I know of one femme who could dominate me in the bedroom. Does that make her butch? No. It just makes her powerful and sexy to me because not many women could get me to be their slave boi. They don’t have it in them. But femmes can be powerful and sexy and dominant without being butch.

    As for books reflecting the history of butch women, read Stone Butch Blues by Leslie Feinberg for one. That is the only one I can think of off the top of my head at the moment. There are more though. You just have to research Amazon a little to find them. This is a debate that is never going to end. But there is one thing I do know, there is no one who would question that I am butch. And when they know me, they recognize a distinctly masculine third gender energy that doesn’t fit either/or. I know I am not the only one like this. We are legion.

  9. Sasha

    Raye – what are your thoughts on “soft- butch”?

  10. Sasha

    Oh and maybe it’s just me, but whenever I use the term “androgynous” it usually has more of a skinny-jean, hipster, emo, slightly effeminate feel to the term for me.

    Butch is always masculine. Always hot.

    Androgynous makes me think if David Bowie, and he is far from butch. Lol. 😉

  11. Elegy

    I do wonder about soft butch, and those who are tweeners- like Dani Campbell who identifies as “futch.” I find the concepts of masculinity, femininity, and androgyny to be very fascinating, and the way in which we identify ourselves and change throughout our lives is equally interesting.

    It’s also of interest to me that it’s the bisexuals who are pointed out in this articles to be the most accepting. Perhaps it’s because- in addition to what was pointed out about energy- of the marginalization they can also face within the LGBT community?

  12. Jul

    Raye –

    Thank you so very much for taking the time, effort and really elaborating on your thoughts, feelings and what it’s about. It’s a world I am really not familiar with at all, don’t know how to navigate, and have always felt like ‘the other’ around…if I’m honest. There was always my perception of weirdness or tension on their end that I just didn’t get. I kind of wanted to shake them and say ‘loosen up..we’re having fun here!’ Whether I approached them to bet on a pool game, or whatever…I just assumed it was something I did, etc that must have made them feel awkward..because I just am who I am no matter who you are.

    The last thing I want is to make people uncomfortable or do something offensive – so I kind of just stopped trying to be more inclusive and stuck with my group of girls who seemed ‘more like me.’ I ‘get’ femmes, I know what they’re about, and what the ‘rules’ are. Kind of a jerk, eh? I was never attracted to butches, but also I just clearly didn’t connect very well socially. I think they always thought I was an a-hole…or into myself. I’m not..at least not that I thought. I went up to ‘them’ to befriend or interact with!

    I interact with everyone exactly the same way – regardless of gender, orientation, etc..and I’ve never seem to have connected even socially with butches. Not to sound ignorant, but it just seems like another world, or at least another culture from my experience – and being attracted to femme girls has left me pretty ignorant to that whole segment of the lesbian population. Since I’ve only dated (and now am with) other femmes…butch is a completely different experience it seems…not that I didn’t know that it was different than my experience before, I just didn’t know ‘how.’

    Ignorantly, I think I just thought of butches as ‘masculine chicks’ – not that there was anything more to it. I likely just did some faux pas I didn’t know. Or hell, maybe I am an a-hole. That’s totally possible. You did a really wonderful job of defining the undefinable…and I really appreciate that. Hopefully, I sound less like a moron, and someone who is finally getting some questions answered you just can’t walk up and ask people in the real world.

    Sasha –
    As far as andro, it’s funny you get that picture! I always think of Jenny Shimizu (in her Calvin Klein days)…the kind of genderbending that could go either direction if they chose it. That could also be because I live not far from lots of hipsters…and they’re a breed in and of themselves. I swear, when we have ‘farm market’ days here, you would be hard-pressed to tell me who is the amish guy & who is the hipster guy. Not to make fun of either group – but they are hard to distinguish for me sometimes. Unless the hat is present.

  13. Raye

    Sasha I agree with your thoughts on androgyny. As for “soft butch” I think that people are constantly in flux defining their identities until they become comfortable with who they are. I am very fond of the saying, “Know thyself.” I believe that a stone or hard butch (like myself) is the result of self reflection and arriving into a level of contentment with oneself that is unmatched on other levels of the butch spectrum. I personally believe that is why soft butches often seem insecure and awkward to me. I watch them interact in social settings and they are usually the obnoxious ones with long hair in a baseball cap who drink too much, talk too loud, and never turn down a game of beer pong. It’s like they have something to prove. This is just my experience. I personally think they are still trying to find themselves and maybe always will be because they don’t want to accept that they fit into a label. I think this stance is either denial or arrogance. Anyone who thinks they are too special to be defined, is in my opinion pretentious. Everyone fits into a checkbox whether they want to admit it or not. We have enough terms and labels to define anyone. The trouble is that people don’t want to accept it because they want to nitpick the details and they harbor preconceived notions about the label they often fit. A label is just a tool to categorize. It doesn’t have to define you as a person. I am a hard, old-school butch, but I don’t have a mullet or a chain wallet and I don’t chew tobacco. I still fit the label though for other reasons. I just wish people would be more comfortable with themselves and own their labels. I know what I am and I know most people hate what I am based on their ignorant notions of what that is. I am ok with that. I don’t need them to accept me as a butch. I love being me.

  14. Jul

    “… but I don’t have a mullet or a chain wallet and I don’t chew tobacco.”

    It’s like you read my mind with my next question! Just kidding. Even I know those are pretty stupid stereotypes…

    But your thoughts about soft butches are interesting…other folks?

  15. Raye

    lol Jul. *waiting for the butthurt to commence…*

    I rarely fail to piss someone off with my viewpoints. However, I calls ’em as I sees ’em.

  16. Raye

    I honestly have more thoughts on soft butches but I don’t really have time to elaborate at the moment. About to take my boys to the dirt track Sprint Car races tonight…

  17. Elegy

    Raye, you lost me here:
    “ I personally think they are still trying to find themselves and maybe always will be because they don’t want to accept that they fit into a label. I think this stance is either denial or arrogance. Anyone who thinks they are too special to be defined, is in my opinion pretentious. Everyone fits into a checkbox whether they want to admit it or not. We have enough terms and labels to define anyone. The trouble is that people don’t want to accept it because they want to nitpick the details and they harbor preconceived notions about the label they often fit. A label is just a tool to categorize. It doesn’t have to define you as a person.”
    To me it, goes against this:
    “Most of us do not identify as male nor female, or alternately identify as a masculine female but we usually do not take well to people who try to feminize us. And some of you may baulk at that at first but, if you really step back and ask yourself how often you fought against wearing dresses and putting on makeup and having boyfriends when all your family members were taunting you about needing to have one, you will remember and recognize what I mean.
    Most of us spent most of our lives fighting against people trying to feminize us. And often, a femme lover will mistakenly assume that what gets her off is what gets our juices flowing (pun intended and it stays.) But what she wants to do is often something that we find puts us in a position to be viewed or treated as femme in our minds which is foreign and uncomfortable to us.”
    I don’t get why people need to label others with a label someone has expressed discomfort with (even when this means that someone finds all labels uncomfortable). I don’t generally consider labels like lesbian, gay, bi, femme, butch etc. a big deal, in most cases I think labels are there so *other* people can feel secure in how their world is structured, and how they interact within it. It’s arguable that trying to force a label on someone who has no need or desire for one is the arrogant action- telling someone you know little of who they are based on your world view. Trying to make someone out to be something they’re not comfortable with, and framing it in a way where their discomfort with being labeled is the problem, not the person with the need to label someone so the world matches their perspective.
    I don’t even know if it’s people don’t want to accept labels, or if this issue is that they simply don’t identify with those labels and don’t appreciate being told they are something they honestly feel they are not. I personally enjoy hearing about those who are devil’s advocates, who dislike labels, I want to at least know their motivation, and decide for myself if I can see their point. For this man, AmanJohnK, I do get his point. Labels are useful, but to take them within one’s self has the potential consequence of breaking out:
    http://tinyurl.com/d2e2ayn
    Everything he says ties into the next point, so it’s hard to pick any one sample quote, but I’ll grab this one: “When you are a label, you yield yourself to [whatever] arbitrary authority purports that label to be, and then we commit atrocities in its name…..when talking to a labeled person, they defend their label, and they become very rigid, and their insecurity shows….instead, I advocate simply seeking truth, WHATEVER that may be – but it is a human barrier…this need to belong, this need to be a part of something bigger than ourselves which causes us to preemptively label ourselves and thus fit ourselves according to arbitrary expectations of our current Matrix….aka “Society” believing all along that what WE think is real, what WE think is right.”
    It’s funny, because it seems as if you are saying similar things. You’ve decided that discovering and acceptance of labels are an indication of security, his argument is the opposite- that labels are a sign of insecurity and lack of independent introspection. Which, oddly enough, proves his point about what people feel is right. I say, if a label makes you happy, you know who you are and that label equally and comfortably identifies you to the world: go for it, and screw everyone else.
    I say the same for a lack of a label as I do for those who have found themselves within their label (and their label within themselves): no one has the right to tell you who you are. You find that out for yourself, and live with it.

    “It ain’t possible to live unless you’re crossing somebody’s line.”-Lafayette

  18. Jul

    Elegy –

    For what it’s worth, I’m not a big fan of ‘labels.’ I think they can help people understand us a bit if we give ourselves one (“I’m a lesbian,” for example)…but in truth, everyone’s expression of themselves might fall into some similar patterns as someone else (thus the labeling phenom), however we’ll likely all function a little differently in our ‘category.’

    For example, I’d probably get the label ‘femme,’ but then again…people create the notion of ‘high femme’ because just plain old ‘femme’ label wasn’t accurate for them. I would say there are tens if not hundreds of subsections of any given label..no one will neatly fit everything. Some reject labels altogether because of that, others say…’well, at least it’s a guide to understanding me better.’

    Raye does come down pretty hard on the soft butch label…but who am I to argue what butch label should or should not go to whom or what they feel. I have no frickin’ idea.

  19. Rexie

    I have to agree that butch is a gender all by itself. Not male, not female, but butch. It is different than andro (which may be a gender unto its own as well). To me, andro is the ???? gender. Is it a man, is it a woman? What is it? It’s Andro. This is not the same with butch. People recognize that while butch is anatomically female, they have a certain masculinity about them that makes them decidely unfeminine in their approach and the way they live their life. I love them because while they are simple on the surface, yet they are complex personalities with a lot of layers. They typically have their guard up and I can’t blame them for that. It is a wonderful thing when you get to be the special person they open up to. I am endlessly fascinated by butch, but I realize they are fragile even if they don’t want to own up to that. They are like an intricate and beautifully crafted piece of glass art. You can look at it from different angles, in different lighting and there is always something new that you didn’t notice before. But like glass, they can shatter easily if not handled with care. Stoic is a word I would apply to butch, because outwardly they have a tough hide and they roll with the punches. But gentlebutch is like butter and it is a lucky person who is allowed to get close in whatever capacity.

  20. Sasha

    I think this is from Jul’s comment about interacting with butches and Raye’s comment about bisexuals being more comfortable with butches. Ok here I go:

    I remember in the beginning I only knew femmes, so I used my old programming of “how to relate to your girlfriend, (as a straight chick) to base my interactions off. Which was always slightly ackward since I never really had any “girlfriends” all my friends were always boys.

    Then when I “discovered” butches”, I immediately knew how to interact with thema! They had a masculine energy – I’ve always preferred the company of men – men always liked me – I was confident in how to interact with men – and I simply transferred the way I interact with men to how I interact with butches – and voila! – it works.

    I have since found my way of dealing with femmes, but usually am more comfortable with men, tombois, butches and trans-men. When I’m around femmes I tend to be more aggressive, more protective of them. It’s weird. But I like who I am with butches, so I love to be around them.

  21. Elegy

    “For what it’s worth, I’m not a big fan of ‘labels.’ I think they can help people understand us a bit if we give ourselves one (“I’m a lesbian,” for example)…but in truth, everyone’s expression of themselves might fall into some similar patterns as someone else (thus the labeling phenom), however we’ll likely all function a little differently in our ‘category.’ ”
    Mhm, I get that. I choose to identify as “femme” most of the time, despite also relating to and identifying with “high femme” and “hard femme.” I find that hey, there are so many sides to me I may as well go with the larger perspective, and I’m comfortable with that. I’m comfortable with being called a lesbian, or dyke, or gay- I know what it means and don’t mind. We use labels to describe someone, to relate to each other and it’s a useful social function. The summary of my point would be someone can allow a label to be assigned to them (say, gender) without identifying with it, or using it for themselves. That to me would be someone who is without a label and comfortable with that and themselves.

  22. Elegy

    ” I love them because while they are simple on the surface, yet they are complex personalities with a lot of layers. They typically have their guard up and I can’t blame them for that. It is a wonderful thing when you get to be the special person they open up to. I am endlessly fascinated by butch, but I realize they are fragile even if they don’t want to own up to that. They are like an intricate and beautifully crafted piece of glass art. You can look at it from different angles, in different lighting and there is always something new that you didn’t notice before. But like glass, they can shatter easily if not handled with care. Stoic is a word I would apply to butch, because outwardly they have a tough hide and they roll with the punches. But gentlebutch is like butter and it is a lucky person who is allowed to get close in whatever capacity.”

    This exactly. I enjoy depth, someone who has depth as a part of their being is instantly fascinating. That, and I just enjoy the “look” most often associated with butches. They don’t *have* to conform exactly to that look, but it is hot- just as hot as the attitude.

  23. virgo

    Bleh. My blunt analogy: We’re all in the “crayola box of crayons,” some are magenta, blizzard blue, teal blue, green, mint green and some mix their colors and create unique colors of their own, etc. All of us have the capability to create a beautiful picture, regardless of what crayon we choose to express ourselves with and no one has the right to tell us “how” to create that picture, whether you scribble outside the lines, in the lines, or somewhere in between and THAT is the beauty of humanity. With that said, I’m going to end it with one of my favorite quotes by Jiddu Krishnamurti, “The description is not the described, I can describe the mountain, but the description is not the mountain and if you are caught up in the description as most people are, then you will never see the mountain.” That is all I have to contribute, cheers. 🙂

  24. Raye

    lol Elegy I lost you a long time ago & never really cared. Just sayin. You and I don’t agree on much. And I’m perfectly fine with that. 🙂

  25. Grrl

    I love that virgo! ‘Nuff said 🙂

  26. Elegy

    That’s too bad. I love to learn with people who enjoy engaging conversations, and considering all perspectives. That’s not for you with me, fair enough.

  27. Sasha

    I think sometimes, disagreements happen on here, that would not happen if, say … We were all sitting around a coffee shop debating and discussing things. Because a lot gets lost in translation, so to speak. We lose the tone of voice, the facial expressions, all of that good stuff! 🙁

  28. Elegy

    Aw, Sasha. I don’t think that’s the case for this one, but I love your glass half full perspective!

  29. Sasha

    I tried. :/

  30. Elegy

    Still love. <3

  31. WWG

    Raye, you know I love this blog and how well it explains the butch gender, butch identity and all its various aspects.

    I do disagree with your stance on soft butches though. Just because youre a hard, old school butch doesnt mean everyone who falls on the butch spectrum is, and thank god. Im all for a variety of flavors!

  32. WWG

    Raye, you know I love this blog and how well it explains the butch gender, butch identity and all its various aspects.

    I do disagree with your stance on soft butches though. Just because youre a hard, old school butch doesnt mean everyone who falls on the butch spectrum is, or has to be and thank god. Im all for a variety of flavors! I dont think its fair to assume a soft butch is anymore confused about her gender than you are.

    That said, ive been told by several (and fully agree with it) that even though i look femme, i am not entirely femme in personality. That might explain why ive had femmes hit on me and slide under my arm at times? I dont know. Im still exploring how i identify fully, but i know for sure im not a pillow princess femme. Im too dominant in my personality to be so.

    You do know i get things from your perspective as a butch and i so fully respect it.

    I need to sleep, so ill continue with thoughts tomorrow.

  33. WWG

    Oops my blackberry posted my comments before i was ready to do so. Sorry for the double posting.

  34. Raye

    WWG, you and I have had this conversation many times and we both know where we stand. And I also know that you view some women as butch that to me are as feminine as the day is long. Like I said, my personal opinion of it is based on what I see from most “soft butches”. Y’all can disagree with me all you want but one look at a lesbian dating site will tell you everything you need to know about the gender identity spectrum and how people deal with it. There are check boxes for everything you can imagine and the ONE check box that is left unchecked by 90% of lesbians is the “butch/ diesel dyke” check box on either the “identity” or “searching for” side of things. The view many of you non-label people here have is idealistic and naive. If labels didn’t matter then no one would shun the butch/diesel dyke nine times out of ten in their “searching for” sections of their dating profiles. I have been looking at this extensively and it is a disproportionate number. I honestly think that “soft butch” is just another term for, “I don’t want people to call me a bull dyke.” Say what you will but really, what the fuck is a soft butch? I am a butch. I am rugged and do a dirty job in a man’s field. I work on cars and drive a pickup truck. I told my brother I wanted to perform in drag and he asked me if that meant I was going to wear women’s clothing. I am most decidedly butch as butch gets. I am also very aggressive and dominant. I can’t tell you how much I LOVE when a femme tries to tell ME what it means to be butch. You know that about as much as I know what it means to be femme.

    Seriously though, anyone who actually knows me knows that I am gentle, I watch chick flicks more than action movies and I still cry when Ruth dies in Fried Green Tomatoes even though I have seen it umpteenmillion times. So what? A butch has feminine traits even though they are not on display for the world to see. So what the fuck is a “soft” butch supposed to be? And if soft butch is supposed to be an appearance then yall are just being hypocrites who say on the one hand that appearance doesn’t define you but then you can’t describe a soft butch other than appearance. To me, you are either brave enough to be the gawked at hardcore butch who deals with daily discrimination or you don’t deserve the label. Call yourself androgynous or something else. Too many butches have been beaten, raped and murdered for being who they are, to have to share a label with a coward. A butch is swagger, masculinity, and unapologetic bravery in the face of a society that hates you from all sides. Believe me I know, I see the dating profiles day in and day out with women who wouldn’t even look at me twice due to how I identify. Women who would rather judge my heart by my appearance than get to know me and see what I have to offer. I am very protective of my label. But I’m not sorry because I respect the women who came before me and endured even more than me. I don’t shy away from who I am or try to apologize for it or water it down so I can avoid someone calling me a name that might hurt. And I don’t have patience for those who do. Like I said, be whatever you want to be but don’t call yourself butch unless you are willing to handle everything that comes with it. My sister called me “Butch” literally as a nickname from the age of 5 years old. I have no choice to be anything else, this is who I was born to be. And it is offensive to me when a woman who acts the same way I do, does the same things I do, and thinks the same way I do, decides that she doesn’t want to be associated with me by label because, “it might make me look like a diesel dyke and everyone hates those so I will call myself a soft butch so I will be more accepted.” To me, that is a sellout. And those women are constantly insecure. I know who I am. To me you are either butch or you aren’t. A tomboy/boi is what I think of when I hear the words “soft butch”. So be a tomboy/boi and stop trying to claim you are something you won’t fully own.

  35. Raye

    To me, “soft butch” is feminine. I think of girls on the softball team who are scared to cut their hair, occasionally wear makeup and a dress but still do decidedly boyish things. In other words, a tomboy.

    As for the exchange of ideas Elegy, I am all for that. But you have about as much chance of listening to mine as I have of listening to yours. WWG and I exchange ideas. You just find things you can disagree with me on. And that’s cool. I just don’t care enough to engage anymore. It gets old and I can’t be bothered because I don’t like repeating myself to someone who isn’t listening. No offense. I am just trying to explain my stance.

    This blog was not about labels or gender identity originally anyway. This blog was about why “stone” butches do not like to be touched. The next one will be ways that you may be able to break down those walls a little.

  36. WWG

    Yeah Raye, we have, and i reacted badly the last time we had it oh so long ago because you are inflexible in this arena, and i find it offputting and disappointing. In all other areas we are able to discuss things and be open with each other in ways many wouldnt understand, but on this i will disagree not with your definitions but your stridency and refusal to open up to other’s labels. I find it almost a put down the way you position a soft butch as feminine. As if thats a negative? Thanks. No one here is questioning or trying to remove your masculinity. No one. No one is questioning your masculine traits. But stridently holding onto it and closing the door in all other’s faces does you no favors and wins you no friends. What you dont seem to understand is soft butches *are* butches. They are not shirking or denying the label – they are wearing it proudly and standing besides you as a brother in arms. But they are also acknowledging a somewhat softer side/slightly more femininity than you possess. Is that such a bad thing? I view it much like the Kinsey scale for sexuality only in gender terms. Maybe youre a 6 and a soft butch is a 5 and a tomboi is a 4 and androgynous is a 3 and hard femme is a 2 and a pillow princess femme is a 1? I know for me iM not a 1 by any means – something you noted about me and acknowledged long before we became friends. I have masculine traits and no amount of charm school would bleed those out of me. But yet i am femme – more or less i guess.

    But just as no one is doubting or questioning your masculinity, i dont think anyone here has any question as to the large heart you possess and how willingly you share and offer it. I know i dont. And yes, that might be your feminine or soft side. As a lesbian. I date women not just because i like the taste of what’s between her legs, but because i looooove that interplay of masculine and feminine energies. There is something to incredinbly enticing about a hard shell knowing there’s a soft, gooey and fragile heart at the center.

    Considering you attract lots of female attention, i fail to feel sorry for you that some idiots on dating site post “no butches.” 😉 Meh. Let them. Saves you the trouble of wasting your time on them, no? Btw, i post on my sites “no femmes” and yet get a lot of femmes messaging me. I ignore it, as should you. Yes, there are some who dont want butches, and you know what? Thats their right. Not fair? No. But preference is personal and no one has to apologize for their preference in my opinion. But again, and perhaps its the city i live in that colors my perspective, but i rarely see butches without lots of female attention or girlfriends, so perhaps the tides are changing.

    As for me, i dont want a stone primarily because i cant give her what she needs nor can she give me what i need. Ive tried, and i just dont have the personality to suit a stone. That doesnt mean there arent loooots of women out there who do.

    I think its time to get back to the point of this blog – why stone butches are the way they are and how to melt a stone’s heart.
    Because, as your friend, i know for a fact you have one worth the world.

  37. Raye

    I don’t want women who aren’t attracted to butches. It isn’t about that. But I can tell you for a fact that I have met women who thought they were not attracted to butches and once given the chance, fell in love with me. That would not happen all the time and my problem is not with the ones who truly have no chemistry with butches because the energies are conflicting. My problem is with the ones who hate on us and reject us outright because of their own assumptions about us. It’s like a child saying “I don’t like chinese food” when they have never even tried it. That to me is ignorant and insulting because they compare me to a man when they know nothing about my gender because they never cared to ask. I have had to turn down butches because I TRIED to like them and even kissed them and felt nothing even though they were so hot. The thing is, even I have given butches a shot because I know there is a woman in there. And there is one that I would still like to try out. (We have been friends for about six years now and she still keeps asking me to give her a shot.) The only reason I haven’t is because I don’t want to hurt her. She is sexy and attractive and gentle-hearted and would probably give me the world if I would let her. And God sometimes I wish I believed that I could have a long term thing with a butch. But I know where my desires lead and they always go back to femmes.

    And shame on you for saying that I was insulting soft butches for calling them feminine. That was inflammatory speech if I ever heard it and you know me better than that. It’s not an insult, it just is what it is. I do not equate feminine with butch. Sorry. There is femme and there is butch. Everything else is in between…. much like the Kinsey scale which also still has extreme ends of the spectrum.

    I do not consider myself a brother in arms with someone who wants to disassociate herself from being called butch because she doesn’t want to be thought of as like me. Like I said, you still have not defined a “soft butch” outside of the terms I have already noted. What makes a butch, “soft”? Femininity? Hair length? Clothing? Butch is butch. Femininity is femme.

    Webster’s dictionary defines the term butch as: notably or deliberately masculine in appearance or manner. And the term was derived from a very short military style haircut back in the 60’s.

    So explain to me the oxymoron of a feminine butch? I call bullshit.

  38. Raye

    If you don’t believe me when I tell you to get outside your own bubble of gayborhood and see the real consensus about butches, you can go here and read through all the nasty definitions for “butch” and get a glimpse of the truth.

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=butch&page=2

    go ahead… read through them all and see how you would feel about it if they were talking about you… So yeah when I deal with this shit every day and then run into someone who doesn’t want to be seen as what I am, I do not feel any comradery to her whatsoever.

  39. Jul

    Raye –

    Two things:

    1. You said ” My problem is with the ones who hate on us and reject us outright because of their own assumptions about us. It’s like a child saying “I don’t like chinese food” when they have never even tried it.

    Gosh, the same could be said about a ‘gold star lesbian’ who has never ‘tried’ a guy. I think that’s an unfair assumption. I think part of it is indeed an unfair stereotype… I think many people might see the ‘label’ you mention (butch/diesel dyke) and see it as too aggressive, in-your-face, or masculine in nature for them. There is a stereotype about diesel dykes that these are the characteristics…no one assumes they’ll be having a saturday cry watching Fried Green Tomatoes.

    Also though…I think there are some women who just are not as attracted to the presentation. Before I was partnered, I chose who I dated by presentation – I go with what ‘does it for me.’ Plenty of my friends are totally turned on by the appearance and energy of a butch…I’m just not. It doesn’t mean I ‘hate’ on anyone…it just means I’m not aroused by them. There are plenty of people who aren’t turned on by femmes too. No biggie.

    2. You also stated: “Women who would rather judge my heart by my appearance than get to know me and see what I have to offer.”

    Everybody does that. We are *all* judged by our appearance. People assume because I am femme that I don’t like to do certain things, or go certain places. We are all categorized, often unfairly, by how we look. That’s the world. Unfortunately, being femme gets you a lot of privilege that being butch doesn’t. That is the unfair part of it. You will face more discrimination & crap in life than I ever will, while both of us are simple being ourselves. I see it all the time, and that hurts my heart.

    3 On Labels…you gave me a lot to think about

    On a final note, maybe I’m not a ‘label’ person because I am always ‘mislabeled’ – so they never mean much. I get assumed as ‘straight,’ or whatever…and though I correct it when I actually hear the assumption (‘what does your husband do?’), I know that when I walk down the street…unless I wore a sign around my neck, I can’t correct them all. I have to disregard labels because I’ve never had to stand behind one and have it mean anything to me.

    Being femme isn’t a label I have had to fight for, stand for or defend. My biggest defense is simply telling people I’m a lesbian…and even when I bring my partner, she looks similar to me. I think we’re embraced a 1,000% more because of that. We represent the femininity they expect and understand. She shows up to an event in a dress, and people feel like they ‘know where to put us’ in their mind. It can be sexualized, sometimes you get remarks, but for us that’s as far as the ‘bad stuff’ goes.

    Maybe I disregard them because in my life…they’re pretty irrelevant.

  40. Rexie

    @Raye: “The next (blog) will be ways that you may be able to break down those walls a little.” Yes. Please.

  41. Trina

    I agree with WWG. I cannot personally agree with your black and white opinion about butches. It is a very big world with so many unique people… But of course this is your post and how dare anyone disagree with you??

  42. Lee

    Great post, I read it to my gf because it describes her completely, it made her grin. I for one am looking forward to the next one.

  43. Raye

    @ Jul
    I like and respect your thoughtful posts and while I agree with many points you make, I think you might be missing the point of mine. I said before and I meant it, that I don’t want women who don’t want butches. I have no interest in women who are not attracted to me. That is not the point. The problem I have is with the sheer disgust they have for me. And it is not a rare thing. I see it all the time. There is a difference between not being attracted to someone, and looking at someone and saying why would I want you if I don’t want men? The equating me with men thing is what gets under my skin. And your analogy to gold star lesbians cracks me up because I was married to a guy for several years before I came out.

    That is why I have a love/hate relationship with bisexuals. I don’t trust them until they prove their intentions but I love them for actually seeing that I am nothing like a man…. that I have more to offer them than men ever did. Sometimes I respect bisexual women more than lesbians because they are more accepting and they see me as something special, not something to be shunned. Girls that are attracted to me have almost always been with men first unless they are butch. And I get those girls and I love them.

    @Rexie I would get on it but I am having a hard time opening up to write it after this response. That post would be something very personal and vulnerable and I don’t know now if I want to give that out.

    @Trina everyone has the right to disagree with me. They also have a right to hear my opinion when they do. I don’t censor anyone but I back up what I say and I have the right to defend my position. Just because I don’t agree doesn’t mean I have stopped them from disagreeing. Your comment makes no sense.

  44. Jul

    Raye –

    You said, “The problem I have is with the sheer disgust they have for me. And it is not a rare thing.”

    I get what you are saying now…sorry I missed that. Yeah, that is a problem, and a big one…but not just for butches, for all of those in the lesbian community. It should be better than that. It’s just a mirroring of hetero-normative gender stuff put onto you unnecessarily. That sucks.

    Frankly, unless I’m with friends, I find the lesbian community a pretty judgmental place….but I do think it stems out of insecurity. As you were talking about your thoughts on ‘soft butches,’ I realized that whether or not you are right on that – I do notice that many lesbians in general are pretty insecure in themselves, and that’s a shame. The less comfortable you are with yourself, the more you are likely to judge others or put them down…it’s adolescent. It’s like some treat bi-girls, trans-individuals, and others. It’s horrible.

    Articles like yours help some to see people better. Thanks for taking the time to explain it.

  45. Elegy

    “As for the exchange of ideas Elegy, I am all for that. But you have about as much chance of listening to mine as I have of listening to yours. WWG and I exchange ideas. You just find things you can disagree with me on. And that’s cool. I just don’t care enough to engage anymore. It gets old and I can’t be bothered because I don’t like repeating myself to someone who isn’t listening. No offense. I am just trying to explain my stance.

    This blog was not about labels or gender identity originally anyway. This blog was about why “stone” butches do not like to be touched. The next one will be ways that you may be able to break down those walls a little.”
    I did not realize you needed me to openly acknowledge everything you say that I DID like- I’m used to a hard debating style where we point out where we disagree on, and can recognize that if it wasn’t mentioned, we either feel neutrally, or agree with it and don’t need praise for it. If you HAD come at me the same way you responded to WWG underneath that response I would have understood your stance better. I wouldn’t have to agree with it (although I find it makes more sense from a “Butch VS ____” perspective than a “all lack of labels are ____” perspective), but I would understand it better. I actually DO listen to your opinions and attempt to understand them- I disagree and say so, or just don’t understand and ask questions in an attempt to do so. As for closing oneself off to listening: that’s on you.

    Also, I had considered posting this elsewhere, but since it directly quotes Raye and was relevant in that sense, it made sense to keep it here- I’ll take responsibility for that.

  46. Kenda

    If there is a spectrum of masculine to feminine, and the lesbian world is not either butch or femme, it seems to me that soft butch is valid. And that if you don’t respect soft butches because they aren’t AS visible as butches (they still do take heat because they ARE visible), then it would follow that you would not respect all other lesbians (tomboi to femme) for not being as visible and for not taking the same heat you do. If a person is less masculine at their core, they would be uncomfortable presenting the same degree of masculinity as a butch. For instance, a soft butch might be as uncomfortable with a buzz cut as you would be with longer hair. Maybe it just doesn’t feel right. I’m not sure that makes them a coward. All that aside, if someone can’t handle being highly visible as butch, there may be a deeper reason than cowardice. We have no way of knowing what someone is dealing with.

    I’m curious about your take on butches who are “bottoms” because that is a more passive energy, and you write about butch energy as being more dominant and aggressive, but maybe that’s for another post.

    More relative to your post here, you indicate that straight/bi women know how to approach you better than lesbians do, and that lesbians challenge your core because they assume you work the same way they do. So regarding the last few sentences of your post, yes, I am curious about the specifics and please contemplate that blog.

    I appreciate your posting and sharing. Always interesting and provocative.

  47. Raye

    Kenda my opinion of “soft” butches is that there is no such thing. A “soft” butch is a tomboi/y. There is little to no difference between the two in my opinion. And the ones I am calling cowards are the ones who don’t want to identify as butch because they don’t want to be called names. I once worked with a chick who had a mullet, wore a chain wallet, and chewed tobacco and got me fired because I owned my label and was unapologetic about it. She was so scared of the redneck assholes around us that instead of supporting me, she was willing to vilify me to them and act like she was not just like me. She was willing to deny that which was already evident because the bigots were ok with you as long as you didn’t admit you were a butch lesbian. Because I was unabashedly gay and butch, I became a threat to her and so she turned on me. Those are the cowards I am talking about. When you are CLEARLY butch and you don’t want to own the label because you don’t want to be categorized as “one of those bull dyke lesbians”, Then don’t call yourself any variation of butch because you don’t deserve the label. Butch is not something to be ashamed of.

    As far as bottom butches, I have no problem with them. In fact I would classify the one specific butch I am attracted to, as a bottom butch. I said it before and I will repeat myself yet again… butch and dominant are not the same thing. I just happen to be a very dominant butch.

    I really don’t know that I can write the next blog right now. People don’t realize how very personal it is to express these intimate details about yourself to the masses. The reason I do it is because I hope that it opens a window into the souls of butches who may not be able to express themselves and feel the same way that I do. I do not claim to think like every other butch. But when someone asks me my opinion of something, I give it. If you don’t like it, that does not mean I am going to change it. I have reasons for my opinions that are based on my experience as a butch and usually the only people arguing with me about them are women who are not butch. So when a femme tries to put me in my place for feeling the way I do about it, it really just annoys me because she will never know what it is like to be me and obviously can’t understand why I would have those opinions because she can’t relate to my experiences anymore than I can relate to being mistaken for straight all day every day.

    So writing the next phase of that blog is very unappealing to me at the moment because I don’t need a debate about my opinions of what should or should not turn a butch on or make a butch let down their guard. I write my blogs in moments of transparency and I sit down and pour my thoughts out in front of me from my very soul. I can take critiquing on this blog and other blogs but more personal, intimate, vulnerable subjects? I’m not sure at the moment.

  48. Jazmenha

    I agree w WWG’s comment “In short, butches ARE valued, appreciated and clearly found to be quite sexy by many women in the world.”

  49. virgo

    @WWG – Well said.

  50. Kenda

    Raye – Thank you for the thoughtful reply. Regarding not being sure if you want to blog about what turns a butch on or makes a butch let down their guard because you anticipate people will debate what you write, I can guarantee you debate will follow. Everything you’ve written has sparked a debate. That means you’ve provoked an examination and enunciation of personal beliefs. That’s a good thing, whether y’all wind up agreeing or not. I, for one, eagerly look forward to your next post, whenever that might be.

  51. Jul

    Raye –

    If I were you, I wouldn’t do it. While I have learned quite a bit reading your thoughts, I would never want anyone really putting themselves out there and be vulnerable to this crowd. We’re wolves. I can be one too, and I admit it. Even if Sasha ‘closed the comments,’ people would find a way to mention it.

    Unless you get to a point where you are totally ok with whatever someone could throw at you, I’d keep those thoughts to yourself.

    I often give Sasha a lot of credit for her chutzpah…though I likely don’t say it enough. She’s a brave chick, unnecessarily so, sometimes.

  52. Jazmenha

    Raye I have learned that if you open up on the deeper level you are thinking of to a crowd full of Internet strangers you (you meant universally) will get slammed with unnecessarily rude comments, you will get accused of bull shit and your intentions will be
    completely misinterpreted and overly analyzed in a false light. It is not worth it. Just keep a journal or write Sasha directly. Sasha is wonderful and a trustworthy person of strong integrity.

  53. Raye

    WWG again you have made assumptions that I did not say and rather than have this get lost in a long post, I will simply say this: I did not say those who call themselves “soft butch” should call themselves femme. I said they are too femme to call themselves butch. Because butch does not mean femme in any sense of the word femme. A butch can have some (few) feminine traits. But a “soft butch” is a tomboy. There is really no distinction. I was asked my opinion on soft butch and there you have it. Also…knowing my background as you do, I would appreciate it if you didn’t become as personal to a group of strangers in the comments section.

    As for my experiences, we are all affected/tinted by our personal experiences. And I never said women were not attracted to me. I know better. I am talking about blind hatred and discrimination from society. And trust me you live on a very small island with a lot of people. There are a lot more butches who have had my experiences than ones in your view of the world. We should all be so lucky. I have a crew of guys that love me despite the fact that I am butch. But in the end, they are still men. And you don’t get to be the butch incognito to hear what men say when women are not around so you will never know what “normal non-misogynistic guys” say when you are not present. I do. I guarantee you that their wives and girlfriends think they are the best, most loving and caring men in the world. I am not going to get into a debate on man-hating.

    As for the other blog, I don’t really need to bore Sasha with emails. If I post them on my Facebook notes, she sees them and that is how she saw this one. Sasha posts what I write if she thinks it will reach a larger audience and they will relate. Sasha is an amazing woman and I love that she thinks my thoughts are worthy of her site. But I think I am going to go with Jul on this one and keep it to myself.

  54. WWG

    You’re right, i did get too personal, and ive asked Sasha to remove it.

    I think it’s ashame you did get asked about soft butches because that is not your experience nor the one you were describing with your blog post. You were describing the experience of a stone/old school butch and i wish it had been left there. I will say that we all get to label ourselves as we’d like and it is respectful to utilize those labels, even if you wouldnt agree with that according to your definition and experience.

    I am aware butches get a lot of crap thrown their way. Ive never said i dont. But i did make the point that it’s not always that horrible and there are a lot of people – female and male – who do appreciate and love butches.

    And i am quite aware of the things men say when women arent around. I may be a femme but once guys knew i was gay, many of them said some nasty crap about women in my presence and yep, they expected id agree with them. Im just saying that not every man is so horribly mysoginistic or threatened by butches.

  55. Sasha

    Sorry guys. I just got s minute to check my emails and I removed the comment, as requested. I’m going to stay out of this except to say I love butches! 🙂 Period.

    It doesn’t shock me that butches get crap like what Raye is talking about because I’ve seen it myself. I have a few stories that maybe I’ll share of what it’s like to have been the femme, witnessing the discrimination of her lover and how powerless and angry that made me feel.

    I have nothing but respect for butches and from what I’ve read so far, it seems like everyone on this blog feels the same way. We just all have different experiences that color our view of situations.

  56. Cinnamon

    Hey Raye. I love what you wrote and I’m looking forward to reading more. I want to ask you for a little advice, if I may. Since my fiancee and I met, she’s been making huge progress in accepting herself. Until relatively recently, she also didn’t want to “label herself” but has come to feel that labels can be an important part of how we understand and communicate about the world and ourselves without being used to completely define ourselves – and I believe this was perhaps especially harder for her because English is not her first language… Anyway since then, she’s taken great joy in calling herself ‘soft butch’ – but I know, as does she, that this is only a half-step that she’s taking because she has experienced serious violence in her past and is terrified that fully embracing and owning herself could put her at risk again. I agree with your views to a large extent and really believe that she could take a much greater joy in embracing the fact that she is BUTCH, no ‘soft’ required. She’s wonderful and I think it’s inevitable that she’ll get there. I hope so, because I think not fully embracing and reveling in this gorgeous aspect of herself could be causing her much more (maybe unconscious) pain than the fear of facing even more judgement ever could. She’s already faced it like an amazon since she was a child, like so many of you warriors. Perhaps time is all that is required, but I wonder if you have any advice regarding directions (perhaps books?) I could very gently point her in to help her open up to herself even more?
    I hope I don’t come across as trying to meddle with her or make her something that she’s not. Believe me, I am over the moon with her as she is. However I do think she could be even happier with herself if she could escape the idea that calling herself butch is something she should be scared of – past violence or no past violence – and anything that could make her even happier is something I want to know about.
    Thanks anyway for a great post. T

  57. Cinnamon

    P.S. I’d like to clarify that it’s not that I don’t believe that soft butch doesn’t exist. I am all in for fluidity and spectrums in all parts of life. However I do think I understand Raye’s belief that there is butch and there is not, and I have nothing but respect for the women who came before us and fought and who deserve the title butch, in my opinion, not to be somewhat diluted by those who can’t fully own it…

  58. Cinnamon

    I just became aware that I may seem to be contradicting myself. And as a new poster that may be especially detrimental! I’m interested in your ideas, Raye, and genuinely interested in any advice you may be able to give. I could never agree with the idea that the lady I’m talking about or the many, many others in similar situations are cowards, though. Perhaps I never should have opened my mouth/keyboard to begin with…

  59. Raye

    Cinnamon I would start with Stone Butch Blues. You might enjoy reading it yourself.

  60. SecretAdmirer

    After reading such a serious strand of questions and answers in the comments I feel a bit stupid posting mine, for it seems trivial.

    But I must get it out of my system.
    After recently coming out to myself (two years) and being in relationship with another femme for a year I think I’m going through a butch phase. And I must blame Sasha and Raye. The way they talk about their respective partners and about the dynamic has made me want it. It seems so beautifully fascinating that I want to have another strong masculine woman take care of me. In the past, even while dating men, i completely refused the idea of being “taken care of” but I wouldn’t mind it coming from a hot butch who seems to delight in it.

    It has not always been like that. I used to also think “might as well go for the man”
    but Sasha and Raye have changed that by exposing the insider view of the relationship.

    To Sasha I must say, well done girl.
    To Raye, I have the biggest crush on you. If i was in Texas…

  61. Femmelover

    @Secret Admirer –

    Wow, seems like you are enamored with Raye! Have you always been so?

  62. Raye

    Thank you Secret Admirer. I appreciate that. However, I am madly in love with an Alabama girl I met here on CCL. We have been living together since August. I might write about it one of these days.

  63. bobbi

    what are the odds that I would just happen to be laying here re-reading this particular blog (and comments) tonight my Love? Funny how things work sometime. I can certainly understand crushing on and being enamored by my butchie, but rest assured, this Alabama girl isn’t going anywhere!

  64. truth

    It’s people like you who make me proud of who I am. I’m glad to say i am a butch and I’m proud.you touched my soul which I never thought was possible and believe me thats not an easy thing to do. Thanks a million. i admire that

  65. Grateful

    I know this in an article from a long time ago, I just wanted to say thank you. This post really struck a chord with me and your thoughts around being content in oneself and self reflection to get to the point of being comfortable as butch… yeah, that hit me in a soft spot. I have only recently come out to myself (internalised lesbophobia) and a select few loved ones and obviously part of coming to terms with your life as a lesbian involves also confronting your relationship to gender. I have so many hang up’s about butchness, thanks to society’s demonisation of the butch lesbian and my parent’s and friend’s homophobia.. I really rely on people like you, who are wise and active in the community, to help me discover and accept myself. As you said, “know thyself”… there’s possibly no greater journey in this life. Thank you so much.

Comments are now closed.