By Guest Writer, DDK
I think that I’ve mentioned the girl I occasionally see in another post, I think since its an ongoing situation I should explain. This is a long story so I’ll try to shorten it up a bit. A while back my fiancee introduced me to her ex (for blogging purposes we’ll call her Sam). Sam had some relationship problems she was going through. She is getting married in October and was cheating on her soon to be wife. Both her and her girl are femmes and her girl eventually knew about it and let it go on. Sam has a history of doing this or so I’m told. Whether it’s a commitment phobia or just something going on in her head I don’t know. So we started talking and admittedly flirting a bit when she first mentioned sex in the first conversation with the phrase of “or you could do me”.
So it started from there. We talked nearly every day for the first month or two and even had some web cam time on her end, I don’t usually recommend internet sex but visuals help 
. Now before people start jumping down my throat, my girl knows and is ok with all of this. Weird huh? Yep I’ve kept her informed and even asked permission to do these things. Even though its her ex, she’s completely fine with it and even finds it hot. Sam’s girl doesn’t know. Problem.
To go into detail about Sam. She’s a sweetheart and definitely a femme. I think she may be self conscious though, she is skinny and thinks that her breasts are to small, I think they’re wonderful and I tell her she’s beautiful all the time even got her flowers once. She deserves to be treated like a princess. Also I think she thinks very low of herself and it shows, she has control problems. That goes with the cheating I suppose. Its obvious she has some issues she needs to work out but she won’t go to counseling. She’s afraid to cry in front of anyone, I get that, being butch I know it’s a thing of not showing weakness. She is a good woman though and does amazing things in the rest of her life, this is just her love life.
So after talking a while we met up in person a couple times and the last time we ended up making out on her couch. I admit I felt off, considering the situation and another reason is Sam herself. She constantly goes back and forth between wanting sex/flirting and nothing at all. She says were just friends and will deny flat out anything she did the day before. After we parted ways the day we made out she wouldn’t talk to me for a week and made it clear she wanted nothing to do with me through texts. A week later she was apologizing for everything and went right back into flirting eventually. Which I don’t help things I guess, but I do want to see her well.
One thing I told her and will stand by is I absolutely will not sleep with her unless she asks her wife first or at least talks to her about this. If she told her girl about this and talked to her she would stop hurting both her and her girl. The reason I did this is because I’m protective of her and part of me thinks that if I do this for her that she won’t sleep around or cheat on her girl if she has me to fall back on. Am I in love with her? No. But I do love her as a friend and keep going through these cycles even though she repeatedly hurts me. I’ve gotten used to it. One problem I can claim for butches: we are your knights in shining armor who will aid you in everything even if it hurts ourselves sometimes. So be gentle with us if you can.
So that’s my story and she’s back on the friends thing for now by the way, So what do you guys think she/we/I should do next?
Now this is just a really complex situation! I have commitment phobia so i’d probably just run away and not look back, which is probably not the best solution for the situation.
DDK – i wish you all the luck with your life, meaning your girl and with Sam. Question, do you love Sam…? Or if she was gone tomorrow would you hurt? “/
Of course I care about her, as I said shes a good woman. I love her deeply as a friend and would never abandon her for having a few issues, we’re all human. when it comes to fight or flight, I choose fight.
If I have learned anything in life no one is and you can’t count on anyone to be your “knight in shunning armor” except your own self.
I concur, Jaz! Knights in shinning armor are in children’s books. I’ve been the one who got me out of every fucked up situation. Quite frankly, I’d like to keep it that way. Anyone else who helps you expects some form of a pay back. Or hangs it over you head.
I’d step away from this situation. Sounds more like a foreplay game between you and your girl anyway. Thanks for coming off so sweet and charming. But, be real here. You’re enjoying having these moments with TWO women. Nobody can deny that this is some sort of “high” for your butch ego.
admittedly so it is in me to take care of femmes and it does feel good to do so. But this isn’t a sex game. Sam is a real person who has feelings, I’ve been trying to help her come to terms with opening up about them. Sex is just a side note here
Bitchinheels (love the name!) “I concur, Jaz! Knights in shinning armor are in children’s books. I’ve been the one who got me out of every fucked up situation. Quite frankly, I’d like to keep it that way”- Amen to that sister!
Sounds like a lot of drama/mind games and I absolutely hate drama/mind games. I literally run as fast as hell, at the first sign of it.
Many years ago I had someone try to be a knight in shining armour for me when I was going through a rough time. Guess what? It only made things worse for me, and when I finally jettisoned him (yes, him) from my life is when I was able to take stock of things and begin to make my own changes. The issue with a knight in shining armour is they get in the way – their need to save you removes your own instincts on how to fix things, as well as your sense of self.
Let’s be real here – you’re not helping her with her committment issues. She’s still cheating (and the worst part – lying) to her wife. You’re just taking advantage of her needs for your own ego. When a woman says “or you could do me” and you know she’s in a committed relationship and so are you, the proper way to be a knight in shining armour is to enact and respect boundaries (“thank you, you’re quite beautiful and if we were both single, I would take you up on that. But we are both in committed relationships and I choose to honor and respect my partner and hope you’ll do the same for yours”) and to show what a loving, committed relationship with respect and boundaries looks like – kind of how it’s said that kids grow up to mirror the relationships of their parents.
You are not her therapist. If you want to be her friend though, you would not have brought your lips to hers once. “Whether it’s a commitment phobia or just something going on in her head I don’t know” – this is the part you’d do well, if you want to be her friend, to find out. It is quite obvious that this woman has a lot of issues and possibly some sort of trauma in her background. I’m sorry, but at this point in time, you and your love are taking advantage of her issues, not helping her. The fact that she runs away and closes down and then apologizes – that says she’s NOT okay with what she’s doing. At all. She is not the one hurting you – you are the one hurting her. Recognize that to be a friend to her, it is your strength, compassion and your ear she needs, not your lips, not your cock. Good luck.
I’m torn because on the one hand, I’m a romantic and I got my own real-life “knight in shining armor.” On the other hand, I had to heal myself and be the one who made the decision to *let* her save me long before those metaphorical castle walls ever came down. Speaking from experience, you absolutely cannot save someone who doesn’t want to be saved, or doesn’t know what she wants at all.
I think it’s extremely commendable to the butch ethic to want to do so, but at the same time, if this turns out to be nothing more than a self-destructive streak (which is what often seems to be disguised beneath a “save me” mentality) it can end in heart break. I hope it doesn’t, and I hope Sam figures out what it is she wants, especially for her girl’s sake. It seems like a safe guess that, considering her past, the wife already has an inkling of what’s what and that probably hurts like hell.
Meh, you probably don’t want my thoughts on this cuz I’m strictly monogamous. Only thing I’m going to say is, 1) she needs to see a therapist, and 2) Her soon to be wife needs to know BEFORE they get married. It’s very wrong for her to be cheated on.
I have to disagree with “Bitch” on a few points. (Hope you don’t mind me shortening your name.)
Knights in shining armor DO exist. I’ll give you that they are rare, but DDK is definitely one of them and has saved me from myself in a way I wasn’t ever going to be able to and does so in small ways all the damned time. I can only guess at what may have happened to you that you stopped believing in the altruism of humanity, but I do know that if you’re never going to find it if you’re so cynical, even bitter, to disallow its existence in your reality.
And “little foreplay game”? No. The background stuff that DDK omitted is stuff like the fact that I have possessive streak and only on some days is it OK, let alone “hot”. But sick, twisted game where I get off on the only two women I’ve been with getting close? Not even close.
I know how easy falling into something more than friendship is with “Sam”. I’ve been there. I’ve known “Sam” literally half my life; she and I met through my brother when I was 11. I watched how she treated and got treated in her many varied relationships. I knew there might be sparks between them.
I trust DDK and “Sam” both, and love them both deeply. albeit, differently. DDK is the one who I will fight for through anything: spiders, hospitalization, even butterflies, as long as she’s mine. (And I f***in’ DESPISE butterflies.You have no idea how much I’d like to get rid of the awful things.)
“Sam” is my oldest, closest friend and one of the very few people I even acknowledge from my high school. She’s a wonderful woman and I introduced the two of them because I wanted my best friend and soul mate to get along despite all the history we have. “Sam” is going to be part of our lives; she’s the closest thing I had to the sister I always wanted until DDK and I got together. Now I get to share her two older sisters, but that won’t displace “Sam”. Not by a long shot.
I don’t think she’s being a good friend, I’m not sure if you’re being a good friend. I do think you’re both trying to be. As for what I think you should do… Eh, this sounds like a life lesson, so keep doing what you’re doing until you can’t do it any more. You’ll figure out when.
I have a question for Kirsten. I’ve never met anyone before, who hated butterflies. Quite the opposite – most people love them (including myself). When I think of beautiful butterflies, they’re like little, flitting fairies. (Okay, that’s corny.) Sorry if this sounds nosy, but did you have a bad butterfly experience? Just curious.
Well put WWG! Just to add, Sam clearly has issues and you agreeing to be dragged into them with Kirsten and (unwittingly) Sam’s girl will help no one. In fact, it may just end up breaking up both couples. Leave Sam to sort her issues on her own with or without her girl and then when she is in a healthy place can you and Kirsten truly be her friend without taking advantage of her. DDK, you may have a DID (Damsel In Distress) complex but I suggest you choose your damsels before you hurt a lot of people.
Kirsten, I have many sisters and friends like sisters but I do NOT want them to get along that well! You having good prior knowledge of her and her situations should help you to get Sam the specific help that she needs and not add her to your maybe monigamish relationship. Just because DDK is your Knight does not mean that she will be able to save Sam or any other DID for that matter. It would help if you could accept that sooner rather than later.
Thank you Novia. I agree with what you said as well. The dynamics here are rather complex, and frankly, rather fucked up.
Alright guys, I’ll try leaving her alone for a bit. we did this before so hopefully we won’t fall back into the same pattern. My kirsti is truly a saint and I’m sorry if I offended anyone here in this twisted tale. its funny how you can be so involved in something so much that you don’t see how disfigured and strange its becoming. I’m not saying its something we’ve all been through but it sure is one crazy trip. Best wishes to Sam if she reads this comment. Sometimes helping is doing nothing at all, although I will be on FB to talk as I usually am but not to talk abut any of this mess.
oh and by the way
The L word is………..
Not offended, worried. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I can say as I am not personally involved, why would I be offended? It’s your story and your truth, not ours. However, and understanding we’re only being given a limited amount of information, there seems to be nothing healthy or smart about this dynamic and from an outside perspective, your desire to help her is not doing that, but doing the opposite.
If you want to be a knight in shining armour (read: strong and helpful), then *you* should be able to resist falling into the old patterns. It’s up to you (and Kirsti) to make the changes necessary to change the patterns. That would help her plenty. If you can’t resist falling into the patterns, look closer then at what you get out of it and what you need from it because I guarantee you there’s something there you need from this too.
agreed
I’m with you Kirsten. I hate butterflies. They scare the shit out of me. I think they are nasty… So, it does mean a lot to me when you would say you would fight through them for her. However, the situation is a bit complex for all three of you.
“Not offended, worried. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I can say as I am not personally involved, why would I be offended?”
This, exactly. This is your life, your lives. As I said, this sounds like a life lesson and everyone goes through those at their own pace.
Sorry, but I just had to add my voice to the choir here. I don’t mean to sound judgmental, only truthful from an outside perspective with limited knowledge (acknowledging WWG’s input), but this mess sounds like a circle jerk of fucked-upness. I am glad Kirsten commented with her POV because it gives more dimension to the screwed up dynamics at work in this situation. I think wanting to help people is commendable, but as others have already said, what you’re doing is not helping Sam at all. You’re only adding another layer of dysfunction to her already dysfunctional life. She’s lying, she’s cheating and she is miserable. You will get no kudos from me for drawing the line at sleeping with her until she tells her girlfriend. It sounds like your relationship with Kirsten is loosely defined. Are you in an open relationship or not? The fact that it is only “ok on some days” with Kirsten tells me that the two of you need to sit down and hammer out some solid boundaries. It’s great when friends get along well with our significant others, but it isn’t a deal breaker if they don’t. Getting along THIS well isn’t necessary and it will only erode your relationship with Kirsten in the end. This situation is chaotic at best, and if you are one of those people who needs chaos in their lives, then you should be in hog heaven. I know that Kirsten really digs you, it’s obvious, but I am wondering if she is allowing you this freedom to hold onto you? Maybe she feels that if she pulls back on the reins she will lose you? These are only questions I have and am in no way implying this is the case. I realize this may not be the case for either of you, but when I am in love with someone, the rest of the world does not exist in the romantic sense of the word. All of my amorous energy is directed towards the person I’m in love with. The thought of even kissing someone else would never even approach my mental threshold. I realize there are many forms of love and relationships, and if you AND Kirsten think this plan of action is going to stabilize your relationship, then I would suggest you find someone more stable to practice this on. Sam needs professional help to sort herself out and you are only adding fuel to already raging fire. Direct her to the nearest therapist. Find one for her. Make an appointment for her. That is the best help you can give her if you truly want to help.
DDK, I was personally not offended, just wary and worried… and a little curious. Please don’t fall back into the pattern, make this time the end and change the story for the better. All the best in that.
Kirsten- You can certainly shorten my name. As long as that is in fact your intention. And some back handed passive aggressiveness.
Either way, I could care less.
The fact that YOU and DDK have stated that this situation is HOT is saying that this is a form of some kind of foreplay. I didn’t say that. You both did.
Knight in shinning armor. Hmm..perhaps she has helped you through some shit. And way to go her. I’ve been aided in some crap, as well, and later was called horrible names. Consider that part of the comment from experience.
However, I wont go back on saying that this is some form of a butch ego. They do get off on helping others even when that “other” doesn’t want or need that help. Even when the butch can clearly see that it is no win situation.
“Sam’s” wife has no clue what’s going on. Butch DDK, that helps no one! It creates a nasty mess and is WAY more trouble than it is worth!
You’re a butch. Fix that shit!
I agree with you Bitch in Heels, however it is up to BOTH of them to fix that shit. Not just the butch. They are a couple and should come to some sort of resolution together, not apart. Oh, and possibly some therapy!!
I forgot to say, sorry Sasha, for taking the topic off subject. I also wanted to add, Kirsten, that moths completely creep me out. It’s weird, because they’re so similar to butterflies. But if a moth comes anywhere near me, it freaks me out. They also nosh on cashmere sweaters – which really pisses me off.
I know I am gonna come across as an asshole here… (whatever what else is new?) but this shit sounds like an episode of Sisterwives. Yall got issues. I ain’t even touching this one. You don’t want advice, you want to be told what you are doing is honorable… and it isn’t.
I have a general phobia with things that fly.
I had childhood trauma stemming from encounters with this one arctic owl at a nearby zoo that hates me unconditionally. It would fly at me screeching any time I got close to its enclosure. So, things that fly, especially at me, scare the heck out of me: birds, bugs, balls, etc.
I appreciate your explanation, Kirsten. That makes sense. Childhood trauma can scar us psychologically for life. I still get scared, whenever I see cockroaches.
Kay- Touche! The ONLY reason I’m telling the Butch to fix it is because she’s flirting, making out, webcamming with Sam. She’s blogging about it, asking for advice. My advice is for her to fix this mess before it gets any worse.
Bitch in Heels – gotcha!! Very good point. And an extremely messy situation…with a lot of cleanup. And I would like to say that your telling how it is way is very refreshing..perhaps fits the name…
Thank you to everyone here for your advise and opinions. I grew up in an abusive home and my views are apparently still a little warped at best when it comes to situations like these and that can become dangerous. So thank you very much for pointing this stuff out to me ( I think you guys saved my life on this one) much love for that. Kirsten is here supporting me through as I try to get the whirlwind in my mind tamed, she is truly an angel and I love you sweetheart.
Thank you, Kay
Being a Bitch has it’s ups and downs, Babe 
You’re welcome
I agree with so many awesome chicks on this forum, that I don’t even feel the need to add much of my own…you guys said it all:
Rexie: ” this mess sounds like a circle jerk of fucked-upness” Exactly. Rexie, You said everything I could have hoped to, only better.
“You’re only adding another layer of dysfunction to her already dysfunctional life. She’s lying, she’s cheating and she is miserable. You will get no kudos from me for drawing the line at sleeping with her until she tells her girlfriend.”
WWG: “there seems to be nothing healthy or smart about this dynamic and from an outside perspective, your desire to help her is not doing that, but doing the opposite.” Absolutely.
Raye: “.. this shit sounds like an episode of Sisterwives.” Yes it does.
“You don’t want advice, you want to be told what you are doing is honorable… and it isn’t.” Agreed.
To conclude, this mess of a relationship is exactly why lesbians get the bad reputation they do of shameless incestual relationships involving ex’s or your ex’s ex, etc.. But I guess no one would have much to say if someone just posted great things about their healthy relationship.
Everyone loves a train wreck…it’s just sad that this is truly someone’s life. So glad it isn’t mine.
DDK –
I’ve gone back and read through your comments particularly, and I want to just give you a word of advice. If you feel that you are ‘warped’ (as you stated), and you genuinely didn’t see that this was all a gigantic disaster waiting to happen…then maybe you should consider seeing a therapist. That’s not to be insulting at all. It’s just if you are not stable or healthy – every relationship you become a part of will be unhealthy too.
Seriously, it will be the best money you ever spend in your life….and your girl will thank you for it.
@Jul: Coming from someone as awesome as you, that is quite a compliment. Thank you! Yoodabom!
Jul – Depends who the therapist is- there are some real quacks.
Rexie –
Chica, you rock, and you were totally on-target with your calls on this. I can give it up when someone knows their stuff. I can be humble, lol!
Jaz –
Of course it depends on the therapist – just like any doc. I wouldn’t go to a plastic surgeon in Mexico who just happened to be having a ‘deal’ for American tourists either…you’ve got to do your homework. She actually needs the kind of therapist that she won’t like, bc a good one won’t fall for her BS or be her ‘friend,’ they’ll be her doctor.
I really don’t think I need therapy at this point in my life. I’ve made peace with what happened to me years ago. Even though my demons come back to haunt me occasionally, I have a wonderful support system around me. lol although I have learned from this that I shouldn’t fall into bad habits and should look out for and analyze some situations more.