Straight Women Falling for Lesbians

What’s on tap for today?



Well first order of business is a pressing matter that several readers have written to me about. Straight women falling for gay women. It goes a little like this:

Straight woman, married with children meets and falls head over heels for a lesbian. Straighty leaves her hetero life for her gay honey, hoping to live happily ever after. But Gay Girl freaks out, accuses Ex-Straighty of still being straight and goes as far as to accuse her of being in a “phase.” So in a lame attempt to save herself some heartache, Miss Lezzy up and leaves Ex-Straighty high and dry!

Now Ex-Straighty is heart broken and devastated over the loss of her true love. Does she go running back to her hubby and life as a man’s wife? No ma’am she does not. She stands her ground and tries to convince her lesbian love that she is gay, was maybe always was gay but has just recently realized it.

Is it fair of the Gay Girl to pull her away from her straight life only to leave her once she does?

Is the Gay Girl only using that as an excuse to get out of a relationship she wasn’t that into to begin with? Because if you ask me, Ex-Straighty has done about everything she can do to prove it’s more then a phase.

Should Ex-Straighty just be happy that she has realized her true sexual orientation, be happy for her first lesbian love affair and happier still for all the future lady loves that I’m sure await her, should this first one not work out?

Chime in here, readers! This story is not just one woman’s story. Unfortunately it’s three different ladies all with strikingly similar story lines. I hate to see lesbians doing this to women. By “this” I mean, having affairs with married women (straight or gay it doesn’t matter) and then the second the woman leaves her relationship for the gay girl, she freaks out and leaves her! What is that about?!!!

I’d love to hear what you all think on the matter. And I’m pretty sure at least some of you of guilty of doing this too, but tell us why you did it?

As for what I have to say on the matter? Well I’m glad you asked. I think that all these ladies should cut their losses and move on. Not backwards but forwards. It’s a blessing that you’ve realized you’re gay and that you’ve come out of the closet. Everyone’s first love is the hardest to get over, it may even be twice as hard with your first lesbian love. But take it as a life lesson and move on. There are plenty of lesbians in the sea that won’t high tail it out of there at the first sign of commitment.

Good luck my dears, no one ever said being a lesbian was easy. But it is SO worth the trouble. 😉

This article has 282 comments

  1. Raye

    I have been married to a man believe it or not but I always knew I was gay. I just had family/religious pressures causing me to force myself to play into the straight life. When I left, I did it for me. I was in love with a girl at the time but ultimately I knew that no matter what happened with her, I was gay and never going back into that closet. I knew this had important consequences for myself as well as my son but I felt it was better than living a lie for the rest of my life. And while I think it is wrong for lesbians to leave their straight loves in the dust (probably due to the pressures of dealing with the ex hubby and new instant family with children), I also believe it is the responsibility of the married woman who chose to step out on her marriage with ANYONE be it gay or another man, to own it and woman-up. Don’t blame someone else for your choices. Yes you thought you loved this woman but evidently you were enamored with lust or something else because you did not give it enough time to find out if she was serious about you, or you did not give your relationship the respect to end it on YOUR terms and for the right reasons. When you break up a marriage,you have to be sure it is what you want because nothing in life in guaranteed. NOTHING. (well except that life will end and even then you don’t know when..) Lesbians who prey upon moms with children better start learning to accept the responsibility that comes with said children. Because when you choose to go after that woman, as great as she may be, you also choose to be in the lives of her children as well. You are not only breaking her heart when you flake out, you are also potentially breaking theirs. I really wish this little playboi mentality/phase our community is going through would end. It sickens me that lesbians are behaving more like immature, non-committal, asshole, porn addicted, men every fucking day. Fucking butch up. Straight ladies… find yourselves a real butch. Forget that loser. She was no better than a man. She proved it by treating you just like one. And frankly I know some men who would do better, and that pains me to say.

  2. GC

    @Raye: I totally agree with you, very well said.

    Married people (gay or straight) shouldn’t be cheating, ideally they should be sincere with their partners, husbands or wives and either talk about opening up the relationship or call it quits if they truly want out.

    That being said if you are single and you’re just looking for a fling or a no strings attached situation then you should be crystal clear about that. Don’t string along people that are looking for or are in long term relationships.

  3. Lovers

    I am a “straight” woman who has been divorced for two years. In that time I’ve gone out on a couple of dates with guys that have amounted to nothing and I just thought it was because I wasn’t attracted to those particular guys.

    About a year ago I struck up a friendship with a lesbian and suddenly had a eureka type moment when I finally realized why I liked hanging out with her so much. I am very attracted to her and she is single too.

    However, the problem is I don’t believe she is attracted to me. I do not wish to spoil the friendship by putting it out there and telling her how I feel. I’m glad I gave it some time also because I’m slowly coming to the conclusion that I am not necessarily attracted to women in general, just her.

    Though I’ve read your posts Sasha and can totally swoon over butch women. I loved that you posted about Ivan Coyote.

    I’m hurtling towards my late thirties so fit the profile of the woman who always identified as straight and then just had no interest in men and started crushing on a woman.

    To be honest, I’m pretty confused about it all and so don’t think it’s the time to be making rash decisions.

  4. Melissa

    There’s a base misunderstanding between the the two parties involved in exactly what the point of the relationship is between an experienced lesbian and a formerly straight married woman when it ends like this.

    The lesbian in this situation is looking to avoid meaningful commitment. Part of the allure of hooking up with a hetero family woman is that she doesn’t have to be responsible for meeting all the married woman’s needs. She gets the sexual benefits along with an ego boost and trophy with what she thinks will be minimal strings attached. Maybe in some cases there’s also this rush the lesbian gets in that perhaps she believes she’s being a hero and “saving” a damsel in distress from what’s obviously a less-than-stellar relationship. Either way, it’s giving her the rewards of a pseudo-relationship when she doesn’t want to lay her heart out there really on the line. Hence, when the married woman bails on her husband for her, suddenly, a lot more work has to be put into their arrangement. Now that the ex-straight has committed herself fully to the lesbian, she’s going to expect (rightfully so) that the lesbian is in turn going to devote an equal part of herself and her life as well…which is exactly what she was avoiding when she started the relationship with the ex-straight in the first place.

    Accusing the ex-straight of not really being gay is just a really easy excuse to be able to bounce out and go find another straight woman. The chase and allure was more interesting and exciting than the prize at the end.

    I don’t want to come off as saying that all lesbians who mess around with married women are like this, and there are examples a-plenty of times when that works out. I’m saying in these specific instances where the married woman is ready to jump in the deep end with both feet only to have her lover’s rejection is almost always due to this base misunderstanding of what was actually going on. I don’t know single lesbian who has ever done this exact thing with a married woman who wasn’t in some sort of pattern with it. I have friends who repeat this process over and over and over…

  5. Nosemovie

    sigh… like looking in a mirror, sort of.
    I was married, one child. And fell in love with a woman (who … never said she was gay, and to my knowledge, had never dated women at all). It ate at me, for about 8 months. On her birthday, I told her I was in love with her, fully expecting her to say “awww, cute, now – go home to your husband.”
    But, she didn’t. She said she was in love with me too, and for quite some time. YIKES! Now what?
    I didn’t cheat. I told her I needed to go home and work out what I should do (she was single). It took months. And she hated me at times during that period. In those months I began investigating my constant thoughts of women, my attraction to, my addiction to the thoughts of being with women. I was honest w/ my husband. He wasn’t happy. But the alternative was to shut all this down again and again and try to live a lie.
    When I left him, she and I got together and just as you describe, it didn’t work at all. She freaked that she was “the other woman” and the one that made me leave my life. I tried to explain that wasn’t the case. Tho I loved her unlike anyone else EVER in my life, I couldn’t make her see that I KNEW what was going on with me. Didn’t help that the time was very stressful and coming out and being honest was a whole new world for me. We broke up. I was crushed, but determined to explore this new world. I moved on. I dated on and off for a year. Exactly a year after we broke it off, she contacted me again to say she still loved me. Wow! She had been watching me grow and now was trusting in what I said all along. We’re together again, for over 8 months now. Plan to marry next summer.
    I don’t think all these lesbians you speak of are just jerks. I think what they see is that “shaky” phase some of us go through as we make major changes in our lives, and they don’t feel they can handle the pressure and stress.
    My best to all married women who make the choice to be honest with themselves. Even without my one true love, I would be overjoyed that I now can totally be ME without reservation or hiding. It’s a gift I can never repay. A gift I gave myself. 🙂

  6. amanda

    i don’t think most lesbians mean to be heartbreakers. I think they are more afraid of the “straight” woman breaking their heart, so they run. Not that its an excuse, but we can’t be the judges, just as we don’t want others to judge us.

  7. lezgrl

    like raye, i was married with kids…and knew i was a gay. i got married young to a man due to family. religious pressures. i have always known i was gay. i have always been attracted to women (even tried to get with a few in high school), but i married a guy because it was a simplier choice at the time. seven years and i kid later, he cheated on me. the ironic thing is i would have never left him. i would have continued to be committed to that relationship. when he cheated, i had my out…no pun intented. after my divorce i dated women and ended up meeting my soulmate. it is amazing to be so happy! and yes…it has been a hard road coming out to family and friends, but it has been worth it. so not all us formerly straight gals are in phase. just ask my girlfriend…we make amazing lovers/ partners =)

  8. Jazmenha

    Unfortunately I think people in general are so afraid people (gay or straight) are going to get their hearts break that they find excuses not to get involved. I am in this category myself. I’m straight, but my brother is gay so I have lots of experience on how love does not fit cookie-cutter ideals be it gender or whatever. I found this wonderful sight 🙂 after doing a search on the straight/lesbian attraction resulting from my own questions/place in life. Like I said, I am straight and only dated guys, but I have dated ABSOLUTE asshole men for the most part- not been the best judge of men. Anyhow, if you read what I wrote under the other entries on this site (??I think it was called “Butches attracted to straight women” I can’t remember lol the title) I would have been more suited to write on this page with the opposite being true- “straight attracted to lesbians”. I think it is hard for people to find true love (both straight or gay) and if you find it and you are on the same page as the other person you should absolutely cherish and respect that person you are with.
    I can totally relate to what Lovers wrote above (hope it’s ok to queot you) “I’m hurtling towards my late thirties so fit the profile of the woman who always identified as straight and then just had no interest in men and started crushing on a woman. To be honest, I’m pretty confused about it all and so don’t think it’s the time to be making rash decisions.” WOW that is exactly where I am at this point in my life!!!!!!! I must honestly say that I am so discouraged and am just taking a break from all of it and focusing on my art, my job, my friends etc. If I met someone again who is half as incredible as the girl (read my entries from the other article on this site lol) who made me realize all of this then I will totally go for it, but in the meantime I am just going to do my own thing. 🙂

  9. Martini-gurl

    I believe that some straight women do not believe having sex with and having intimate relations in general with another woman is cheating. Some people who are straight women seem to believe it is ONLY sex if it is with a man so there is no commitment to a woman. I even think that my family kind of thinks I am not a viable adult because I have never been in a relationship with a man but have had several long term relationships with women.

    I really liked Raye’s rules for dating a straight woman—-almost every single thing she said is what I recently went through and it was a GREAT blog—-fabulous. I laughed really hard and cried really hard. “Straight ladies… find yourselves a real butch.” from Raye’s comment on this article is interesting. I understand Raye is butch but not all straight or femme women want the ” butch femme thing.” Not saying Raye is wrong—sorry Raye-just saying it is interesting that it sounded as if you think straight women all want butch women—or maybe I’ve just had too much coffee today…lol. I am NOT butch…ok, just a wee bit but most people do not know I am gay unless I tell them, so I’m not but soooo butch and I can’t play softball. God we are hung up on defining and proving ourselves! People have so many choices concerning everything today–including sex roles and expectations that I think some people just freeze like a deer in the headlights and can’t do a damn thing. Indecision is a killer.

    MY problem is that most of the femme women I am attracted to just happen to be straight or bi. And trust me, I did NOT ask to go through this type of annoyance and heartbreak. I am sure there are very femme women out there that are actually lesbians because I’ve found them in the past—problem is they don’t always set off gaydar and I don’t think they live in my one horse town! And yes—I am going to move…lol

    I saw an “out of towner” last week who set off my gaydar. Deer in the headlights….it’s probably NOT cool to hit on a woman at a service station while she’s pumping gas…lol

    As for this blog—some people DO go through life phases—some have a true revelation—some never act on desires because of fear of failure, of commitment….of “insert any excuse here”. I gave up on the idea of riding off in the sunset and living happily ever after—I want someone that will and can live with me in this NOW. The past is done and the future is waiting… 🙂

  10. Jazmenha

    Martini-Gurl- I think the seriousness or lack of seriousness in how someone sees a relationship is not related to if it is a straight girl and lesbian etc or even if it is a girl and guy etc. Instead I think the seriousness or lack of is completely related to the individual people. Some people are more concerned with what others think so they don’t take something seriously that if they didn’t care what others think they would take seriously. Others might care what others outside their relationship think but they place strong value, care and respect on their own significant other relationship- be it girl/girl or whatever. I personally am this way- if I am in a relationship that person is the most important to me and I would never disrespect them by not taking what we shared seriously. I believe that love is like art- it is totally subjective how people view it. I wrote you on the other article on this blog lol I mean crap LOL I was (ok still am lol a little tiny bit) hung up on that (beautiful butch- sigh) girl from the resturant for the last month lol and so if I was like that about someone I only met once then obviously I would be totally loyal to someone I was actually in a relationship with. 🙂 Again the way people view relationships depends on the individual regardless of sexual preferences. Trust me I know sooooo many men who just screw around with women and I know lots of same sex couples who have been together for many years-granted I don’t know if one partner was once straight LOL but I’m just saying everyone is different in the way they view relationships. 🙂 Jazi

  11. Jazmenha

    and Martini Gurl- I totally agree with your comment about being hung up on constantly defining and proving ourselves…..I don’t understand why people in general do not just let other people just be themselves. This goes for everyone- even straight women who are WAY more attracted to butch women 🙂 then men – that would be me. lol AHHHHHH! I mean life is so short and I always say no one is more qualified to be you then you- so I will never understand why people in general spend so much time trying to change or analize other people when their own lives are a mess. LOL 🙂 That is just my 2 cents and you can’t buy anything for 2 cents these days. 🙂

  12. MyOwnGirl

    Hmm. I had to read this one when the topic came up. This is exactly where I am right now. I am married, 3 children and didn’t really think I could be gay. I decided a few years ago that despite the fact that I love the company of women(friends, right?) and could totally see being partners with a sharing a life with woman, since I couldn’t picture the physical side of it, I must not be gay. It didn’t occur to me that maybe straight girls don’t have to rationalize to themselves why they are not gay. So, a little over a year ago I made friends with a single gay woman and while I chose to live in oblivion for a while, the chase was on and it was short and hard. I have never been hit on so thoroughly or so constantly by any man in my life. I caved and I didn’t regret a second of it, except the fact that I was now a cheater, something I thought I would NEVER do. Shortly after this experience, my pushy girl broke things off and began sleeping with a mutual friend. She figured that was okay since I was married anyway. I can see some logic there, but it was very very hard for me. All these new feelings, no one to talk to and the uncertainty whether I could cram myself back into my straight life. In this swirl of confusion my husband decided to go into his own true confession and tell me that he had cheated too, for the first 4 years of our marriage. Oh. Didn’t see that one coming. I started therapy then to figure out how I was possibly going to go on from there, either forward or backward. My first thought was that I couldn’t leave my marriage because I had PROMISED. And I did. And I meant it when I said it. But in time I came to see that no matter what I had said then, my attraction to women was not just a passing thought and even though my crazy first girl was out of my life, it was the life I wanted.
    So, now I am about 1/3 of the way through the most difficult thing in my life so far, the divorce of my husband of 14 years and the change of my family. I know I will be happier in the long run, but the short run is hard and at times I still wish I was living in my happy(or mostly happy) world of oblivion. I know my husband wishes I was still there.
    This is a very long message I guess, but my point is that my girl didn’t really leave me because the thrill of the chase was over, but she did leave, for reasons that were apparent to her from the minute she met me. She actually does regret it now and thinks I should stay married and keep the family together because “an unhappy marriage is better than no marriage at all”. I disagree and if I’m proven wrong i’ll let her know.

  13. Raye

    Myowngirl, if you need someone to vent to, hit my name link on facebook and tell me who you are. I have gone through this transition before and I am a pretty good listener without turning things into something more complicated than friendships. Sasha will tell you my intentions are nothing but honorable. It sucks to go through that having no one to talk to.

  14. Esmeralda

    I agree with Amanda, my girl now was with a man for 9 years and they have two children.Although I wasn’t her first girlfriend, when we first started dating I often questioned whether it was a phase or not. I my mind I was like it took you 9 years to figure out you didn’t like men? That along with previous experiences of dating straight women wo liked lesbians or “bi-sexuals” and them leaving because of they want kids or their parents want grand kids I always tried to steer clear of those situations. So for me my reason for ending a relationship with a former staighty would be not to get hurt. And I definitely stay away from women that are still with their husband or boyfriends. That’s just nasty to me. Not to mention one of my friends just had her heart broken by a straighty that left her to go back to some guy that blacked her eye repeatedly and, almost put my friend in the hospital because she was trying to protect her.

  15. Jazmenha

    Keep your head up Myowngirl. You ARE stronger than you think!

  16. Jazmenha

    I have written on other posts within this site but think what I have to say is better matched under this topic. I have been totally questioning my being “straight” and honestly NOT having the easiest time internally right now with all that. 🙁 Anyhow all my questions about these feelings I have is why I found this site in the 1st place.I feel that this is the only place I can “talk” this out/express myself. I have wonderful friends, but they would not understand. My brother is gay and I secretly (minus on this site lol) I know I have those feelings myself (I can see a butch lesbian and my heart completely melts, I see a “hot” guy that all my friends comment about him- nothing to me????) I have only dated men and most of whom were total assholes. There have been a few times where a girl made my heart skip a beat over the last 10 years, but again seeing everything my brother went through when he “came out” I just tried to ignor these feelings etc. Being there through literally every minute and every discussion of the long process of my brother “coming out” and supporting both him and my parents etc. Wiping all of their tears, late night calls supporting and listening to both sides, peace-making between them etc. I understand all too well the meaning, emotions and details underlining how hard it is to express having feelings towards the same sex etc in our judgemental society. Which is one HUGE reason why I am struggling so much myself right now with all these attractions/feeling because I would never want to put them through all that again so instead I talk myself out of my attractions/feelings towards other women 🙁 because I would NEVER want to hurt her (a future partner) in any way ever and I would not want to cause more drama for my family in terms of another “coming out” in the family. I am a big mess over this 🙁 and soooo confused. 🙁 I have no interest in being with men at all so I don’t fit in the straight “world”, but I do not fit in the lesbian “world” (I mean that respectfully- not sure how to word it) I mean I have never dated a women (though obviously I would much rather do that then be w a man) so therefore lately I feel stupid even expressing myself on this site because like I said I haven’t. 🙁 I am not straight inside so living in a straight world is pretty hard. And though you would think so- I can not talk with my brother about this. 🙁 I don’t date guys- no thanks and I unfort don’t date woman 🙁 because of all the crap I saw my brother go through with coming out etc. so I feel like I do not belong in either world. 🙁 I should stop taking up writing space on this site and making a total fool of myself every time I write. Anyhow…..I am sorry I write so much. Everyone on this blog/site seems like a great group of women and I wish you all the best and much happiness. Take good care everyone.

  17. Femmelover

    As a femme loving soft butch, I can say with some certainty, that messing around with any married woman is not cool. I think that she should be out of that relationship before anything should/could start with someone else. As I said, I absolutely love me a beautiful feminine woman but, don’t want to be the one to possibly break up a happy/unhappy home. @Myowngirl: I feel your pain and confusion but, you deserve to be happy and loved by that special woman. Think about that lesbian, whomever it might be…that is out there waiting for someone like you to come into their life…you might be someone’s soulmate in waiting. Heck, it could be me! lol! But, honestly, if you follow your heart and know that what you feel inside is true to you, I believe ur family will understand…eventually. You cannot let past hurts dictate ur future and the potential future you could have with that special someone.

  18. nike forsander lorentsen

    straight women…
    I scream and run away…

  19. Jazmenha

    @ nike f.l.- You scream and run away before or after??? LOL LOL (I couldn’t resist lol)

  20. Amy Bronwn

    I have a friend at work that just left her husband. I always been straight but something has drawn me very close to her n she acts gay sometimes but how do I know for sure. his is got me very confuse.

  21. chrissy

    wow so much being said about this. i thought i was the only one until i stumbled into this site.

    i am glad i did. about 11 years ago i worked with a straight woman that i was very attracted and fell in love with. long story short we over a period of a couple of years became close we also began working closely together. she was not married initially, however we did not know each other well or work closely until after she married.
    i was so very attracted to her i would flirt with her and she would do the same. i felt so strongly i left my relationship and began dating various women. knowing i could not be with her i never expressed my true feelings for her. i wanted to be with her all the time even after an 8 hour day.

    as we grew closer i remember wanting to get to work to see her each day. i could not wait to be near her. i also became friends with some of hers and we would all go out together. i did on one occasion burn a cd for her that had many telling songs on it. including one that mentioned i had feelings and understood there could never be more because of the situation. it was only in this manner i half ass attempted to communicate my intense feelings for her.
    so she wanted to transfer closer o her home and put in to do so. she asked me to transfer as well as i would cover for her when she went on vacation and such. i agreed to do so and put my paperwork in as well.
    not long after 9/11 in fact it was dec of 2001. we had dinner and it was christmas eve. we were also exchanging gifts. on this particular evening she told me she was divorcing her husband for various reasons unrelated to me. i can remember like it was yesterday. i wanted to fall off of the chair.

    i could not believe what i was hearing. as i looked across the table gazing into her eyes i was in utter shock. i did not know what to say or do. he moved out of their home and she invited me over a few times. neither of us speaking of any feelings with regards to one another. prior to this i was very careful because i was her subordinate. sure i flirted like mad but that was it. i decided not to transfer to another office with her. in looking back i was so afraid of what i felt for her. i had been hurt in the prior relationship years before ( not by a straight woman though) and was too afraid to move forward and express my interest in her directly.

    long story short. we stopped hanging around one another. we no longer worked together. i nor she never shared our feelings. she ended up back in her marriage. i ended up back in my prior relationship i had left about 1 year before and that is the end of story.

    if there is one thing in my life i regret i would say it would be that i never followed through and expressed my feelings for her. i lost a chance to be with a woman i was completely in love with. never knowing what may have happened.

  22. Jazmenha

    @ Chrissy Thanks for sharing your story. It is beautiful. I know the ending hurt like hell and “beautiful” might seem a strange word because of that, but the connection you too obviously shared was beautiful regardless. Regretting feelings you didn’t express sucks. I totally understand. Wow I use to write such personal stuff on here. lol I reread what I wrote above. Time has passed but nothing much has changed. Actually I found CCL because of an amazing chance encounter with a girl I met in a jazz bar (Jaz) I had NEVER felt that instant, that intense, that deep of a connection with anyone- guy or girl- that literally instantly in my life. I had only dated men (men) but wanted SO badly to be with her from literally the second we saw each other. When she hugged me goodbye she was SO happy that she was giggling like a school girl (ha). I had NEVER experienced any of that instant connection and definitely not the instantly intense floating on air happiness we both felt. So anyhow, I put of those “puzzle pieces” all together and came up with my CCL pen name Jaz-men-ha. 🙂 We never saw each other again and literally only talked for less than 30mins. It was a chance encounter that literally changed my life. I was not meant to be with her, but I was meant to be who I was after I met her- since in reality I had been this person all along. I believe in a strange way she was one of my soulmates. I think people can have a couple soulmates in a lifetime. We don’t always end up with our soulmates. And sometimes we are not even meant to be with our soulmates. They can just be experiences or (in your case) relationships that help bring us closer to the person we are meant to be. What I am trying to say is that trust me if it took me four months to get over that brief (talking) encounter with the one that made me realize that my attraction to women over the last 10 years (nothing happened- read above etc) IS real than maybe you did the same for her. Chrissy I am absolutely positive that she never forgot you-people do not forget connections like that especially after your friendship history together. Chrissy you never know how your presence has touched someone’s life. Regret is an understandable BUT a horrible feeling to feel so I hope you will find peace in knowing that (I am sure) she knew exactly how you felt just as you pretty much knew she felt the same way but unfortunately the timing was off. As commonly known, the social pressures of being “straight” in this society are very intense. I struggle with this constantly (read above) one line I wrote almost brought me to tears “I am not straight inside so living in a straight world is pretty hard.” Maybe the girl you are referring to felt the same way in regards to you… went back to her husband…..sometimes it is easier to wear a “mask” in this judgemental world we live in. The world is cruel to those brave enough to come out. I have seen it repeatedly with my brother’s coming out etc. That is why I beyond admire anyone strong enough to do so. Anyhow, I know it is very difficult but please don’t beat yourself up over what happened. Who knows maybe one day you guys will reconnect. Or you will have just gained more wisdom/strength/courage for who you are with/love now or if not then who you will love/ be with in the future. (At least I hope that is what I personally gained from my lost “soulmate” experience.) Anyhow, I know that was a long time ago but take good care of yourself and good luck to you.

  23. angel

    I like women, super. I have been fantasizing about this 17 or 16 years old girl.She’s so pretty. She came from England.She’s not usually my type of girl but I really like her accent and her smile. I have been in the closet my whole life.Fell in love twice with straight girls, coz im only 22.I am afraid to confess to her that I liked her coz all my life I have been rejected for different reasons but most of all because Im ugly and awkward. I have intense fear of rejection. She has a boyfriend and he’s gay.(haha) and I have never felt a stronger urge to tell her that I like her. I only talk to her on facebook or text but just for a 2 mins. and that’s it.She became my classmate.She’s going to be a sophomore and me a senior. I am an education student and she’s a psychology student. I don’t know what I should do because I am a Christian, a true Christian. All of these feelings of mine gives me guilt and fear. I like her, I wanna be friends with her but I don’t want it to go deeper if she does’nt like me, plus I live in a country where 99percent of lesbians are masculine and almost no bi women or femme lesbians.It’s so confusing. I don’t want to sin against God.and I don’t want to be rejected by her and be humiliated and laughed at. 🙁

  24. angel

    I really like her. It is only the first time that I felt I wanted to tell a girl that I like her.I don’t care about our age.In this country nobody cares about the age.It’s the rejection and God that I fear…She’s so cute, she’s so adorable.She’s so funny, intelligent, she has an amazing voice.I like her a lot and she doesn’t even like me as a friend.It’s because I’m very timid, shy, quiet, awkward and ugly.oH I hate it. :'(

  25. Jazmenha

    @ Angel- If she has a boyfriend and she is 16 and you’re 22 maybe you should seriously rethink telling her. Not sure which country you live but 16/17 year old and 22 year old is playing with fire in some countries. You mentioned “I don’t want to sin against God.” And I totally respect this I just really have to point out that many people on CCL who are very strong in their different faiths (I am thinking of two in particular Raye and Femmelover and I am as well) and they ARE VERY good people and the ARE “true Christians” as well as gay. The same God made gay people AND straight people. My brother and his partner and VERY Christian and they are also gay… I’m just saying. (Side note- “If people spend so much time judging others they have no time to love them.” Mother Theresa said this.) Be true to yourself always, be true to your faith and to your beliefs always.Do what you feel is right for you and your beliefs. Remember people are not always kind and not always excepting of gays so you might want to really think about saying anything to her- especially since she has a boyfriend and the age difference. But again it is up to you. Good luck.

  26. Rozes are Red

    I’m a lesbian seeing a woman now who is married and has been for 23 years. No one involved sees this as cheating as her husband is well aware of what is going on and he is not involved in our sex life. I was one of those people who 1 said I would never fall for a straight woman again, and 2 said I would never get involved in a marriage but here I am sleeping with the most amazing woman I have ever been with and her kids (who are my age) absolutely love me. It’s been 3 months now and although I started out thinking it would only be sex and nothing more I found myself falling in love with her and her family. I’m a little confused at the moment because I went against my 2 biggest rules and I am afraid it will abruptly end one day in jealousy and heartache. I know I should never have let myself fall into this position but I am here now and she loves me so I feel like I can’t leave even if I wanted to. Her hussy loves me even tho we are not sexually involved and all three of us have sat down and talked about the situation but the fear still hangs over me in the back of my mind. I want to be with her but I definitely do not want to break up their marriage and I am very aware that this won’t last forever, it never does. I just don’t know what I should do and I am trying so desperately to figure it out before I get my heart broken or before I end up breaking hers.

  27. Femmelover

    Fuckin “A”! First of all I don’t have much sympathy for anyone that calls the husband of the wife/woman she’s doin, a hussy! I mean, no type o’s here because the “b” is just way far away from the “s” that it’s not a mistake! Come on…don’t get between that stuff!

    And you say you want what now? Advice? Ok, here it is: Your letting your dick get in the way of common decency and just overall common sense. Question? If you think she’s going to leave him for you, why hasn’t she already? You know what, maybe she will but, you should not be the catalyst that makes that happen. Man, this is not right! Never get involved with a married woman. She needs to be totally unmarried before you even think to venture in – not cool dude! Furthermore, I would give it awhile even after a divorce before even considering-a-goin there. Dang man, you’re really in deep on this…sheet! Hope something works out for the good of all.

  28. Elegy

    I would say…. ride it out as peacefully as possible, and take it as an optimistic life lesson. Do not go any further into this with some thought that one day it will be the two of you- it won’t. Harsh, but it is statistically improbable and you are not about to be the exception. This woman has been married for 23 years- I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m a big believer in loyalty over anything else and that’s a solid two decades plus.

    Secondly, you are the same age as her children! I’m all for cougars and cubs, but come on now! Just another reason to NOT expect anything out of this but fun times! Maybe that little bit of “oh no” that lurks in the back of your mind has its origins in wanting to eventually ride off in the sunset with each other…. squash that! It will bring you down when you should be enjoying things. The husband is okay with it (and doesn’t want to get in on it)! The “KIDS” (however old they are) are okay with it! This is already an amazing opportunity, don’t ruin it with further greed!

    And lastly- even though you’ve broken and otherwise compromised both your two rules in life, and the rules on this list, I still feel it is an essential read:

  29. Elegy

    Oh, and as for what you should do:
    1)”I am here now and she loves me so I feel like I can’t leave even if I wanted to.”
    That is a classic denial of responsibility. If it’s out of your hands- if it it tied down in feelings how can you be blamed?
    You chose your path. You’re still choosing to walk it. Take ALL responsibility as you are an adult woman.

    2) “I want to be with her but I definitely do not want to break up their marriage”
    This part is easy! First, don’t break up their marriage. Again, it comes down to choice and full responsibility. Either you do want to come between them (and break up their 23 year marriage) or you don’t. You said you don’t, so don’t. And part two is: you are as with her as you can get! You’re together now (3 months, you said), so be happy while you have it.

  30. Elegy

    And 3) you said you’ve also fallen in love with her family! This includes the father in the family- the kids wouldn’t be the same without him. And if you did come between them and break up their marriage… as already pointed out, you’re mostly likely going to be blamed (even if there are 3 people involved) and the kids will probably (quite commonly) hate the person who broke their family.

  31. Jazmenha

    Sounds like u r in a big mess. I agree w FL it’s not wise to get involved w married person. Since u already are involved I also agree w E on her slim chance of someone in a 23 yr marriage actually leaving the guy. Sounds like giant mess. Good luck. I don’t get why if he doesn’t care and if everyone is all totally fine w it what your question is. Sounds like they have an open marriage. Definitely not my thing but to each her own. Take good care

  32. Jazmenha

    And never say “I can’t leave even if I wanted to” -shit never give anyone any power over you- oh hell no- trust me rolls reversed she’ d do what was best for her. Be strong. Stay if YOU want or leave if YOU want. it’s YOUR life bottom line.

  33. Jazmenha

    Rozes are Red- important thought to VERY seriously think about if you do want a real and serious relationship down the line then memories and mediate on this reality- most people meet their.eventual long term partners between the ages of 22 and 31. Some bet 31 and 34. It gets MUCH HARDER to meet after 38 so what u do now DOES effect your future in ways you might regret down the age road.

  34. Missy

    I am in a mess.. I have been in a relationship with a straight woman for the past 7 1/2 years. Her son is know nine, thus I have known him since he was 1 and a half years.
    She broke up with me just a few days ago…saying that she wants her life to head in a different direction. Mind you it has not been an open relationship mostly on her part.
    She now forbids her son to talk to me and I think I am in denial because I believe that she might call one day and everything will be alright..
    She sent me a text saying that she loves me and always will.
    What a shitty place to be???

  35. Kodi

    i just stumbled on this website and have been reading most of the posts and decided to give my 2 cents on this topic. i live in the caribbean where people are very homophobic. being me here has not been the easiest but you do what you must to survive. i am in my early 20s. while i was in college, i met this girl a ‘straight’ one and we i would like to say we hit it off right off the bat. i was ‘wipped’ (sigh … yeah i was) and would do anything for this girl. she was apart time student who worked and i was going to school full time and was living on campus. one evening we were finishing a project and she stayed over (nothing happened i kept my hands to myself)and from then on she would call me every night if even to say she reached home, we flirted (or she flirted with me and i just ate it all up :)). o and did i state she had a bf? no? well she had one and still would find time to call me to check if i had eaten and such.
    anyway fast forward 2 years and i took her to lunch on my first pay check and told her that i liked her a lot. here i was finally expressing myself to this girl i had a crush on for 2 years and that i thought liked me too, only to have my house of cards come tumbling down. she didn’t ‘feel’ that way towards me. needless to say i was crushed and it too me a while to get over it and i lost her friendship.
    moral: ‘straight’ girls in my opinion finds someone a little stranger than them and just attached themselves to them to find out if they are indeed different. when the serious stuff starts to surface, the run scared and normally to the arms of their hetro counter parts.

  36. Michele

    I have been with the love of my life for five years and while these have been the happiest years of my life they have also contained the biggest tests of my life.

    We worked together–she was straight and had a kid a boyfriend and a soon to be ex husband. I was in a very good place-a bad relationship away way way far away-see ya-bye, a new pad and happy to be on the prowl. She and I became work friends. She confided in me her boy troubles and I listened and gave her my honesty-she was a friend after all. Had I known the shift was going from her boyfriend to me, I would have, well…. Well, she’s fine but I would not have gone down that path because I don’t date straights–and especially not one with a son. But, as the wheel of fate turns we are still together, raising her little boy who loves me and whom I adore and love like my own. But it was a struggle because I was tripping she might be going thru a phase and then of course there was the ex-bf I had to deal with-sending flowers, emails, letters. None of that helped my state of mind but I/we got thru it. But ‘TWAS HELL! And will always have the ex husband/dad who has and continues to be an antagonistic fuckwad. But since there is no way around him, it serves me best to be at peace with my girl’s past and myself. And it has opened me up more which is more than I bargained for.
    Either way you slice, you take your chances with straight girls.

  37. Jazmenha

    For me it turned out to be heartbreak. I’ve previously posted about Crush. We are still very good friends and cont to hang out lots but that has been really hard on me. Yeah not to hard on her as she spent time telling me about her “adventures” w her new boyfriend of a month. We have plans to hang out again over weekend of 4th. I realize I’ll never meet anyone if I’m cont to hang out w her but we’ve been good friends for years so…if I ever meet the one then out of respect for her I wouldn’t hang w Crush so often hummm guess in the meantime we hang out as just friends. I met her boyfriend and even defended her when her talked disrespectfully to her. Hummmm

  38. Jack

    Girls, I have a question. my wife (as it appears) is strait, ok, 31. Now she is beautiful ( yummy) for both genders. now she has a new friend also married, but she is very contact driven, in a sexual way, rubbing boobs against my wifes back, and sof touching and so on. now the ssms she sends my wife are about Hi delicious”, nad end the day with ” I send you my total love”. she does not seem to be exactly like this with anyone else. what do you think ? if you need more info please let me know. thanks !!

  39. Jazmenha

    Jack It depends. I was with some of my friends this weekend and the wives were all “flirting” with eachother like that one even ate chocolate out of another’s cleavage. But they are EXTEEMELY in love and loyal to their husbands. They all were totally innocent and just kidding around. So keep in mine that some women have this intense playfulness with each other. Not my style but everyone is different plus I’m very shy and still hopelessly hung up on my x (sigh) who I call Crush. I hang out w my Crush all the time (we just went to a concert tonight) BUT there is a total level of respect because she is dating a guy (she swears he’s not her bf 🙂 too cute- long story we have a very strong history together-and I know he is her boyfriend and I support it because I above all I want her happy) anyhow Im mentioning this because even if a little flirty there (we shared a blanket at the concert 🙂 awww) there is also a strong respect level for and of boundaries among us as women for her relationship w this guy and i would NEVER disrespect that. It’s important not to jump to assumptions or to make interpretations only deal with actual facts. Good luck.

  40. Elegy

    Ummm, I honestly could barely understand what it is you are trying to say, so here is an article on the same topic that will hopefully be of use to you:

  41. Jazmenha

    Sasha wow go on Elergy’s link above and click on married lesbian couple on the rt side of the screen and it takes you to a “Marriage Equality Photo contest” $4,000 free wedding photos etc. Love it! Great link Elegy 🙂 glad Jack thought his wife was getting hit on by a lesbian 🙂 those damn lesbians 🙂 where can I find such a magnificent creature myself? lol 🙂 smiles

  42. Jack

    Jas, Elegy. thanks, you have no idea how wonderful your input. remember the friend, lets call her : A Now, progressing if you may. i spoke with one mutual girl friend of the group ( my wife, “A” and two others all married but desesperate housewifes ok). she says A does push for sexual female talk and rubs sometimes with them too. Now she feels A is testing who bites, and my wife seems to be her main fish to catch, she says my wife is innocent as just naive but still enjoys its.. Comment on this if you wish please, Now girls, help me out here how would you distinguished,say with some patterns, the difference between “A” being innocent.. or A being cleverly fishing. in other words can you share your input on clearly identifying of patterns a girl after a girl for some kind of relationship interest of some kind of either mentally, emotionally or phisicall attraction, from just a lovely friend. Thanks in advance, you guys are my single source to understand this. 🙂

  43. Jazmenha

    Jack it is complicated not black and white answer. That group of married girl friends I have are very intimate with each other but never cross the sex line. Their connection is very respectful and very natural to everyone involved. Remember they are all artists and being an artist one tends to be more open naturally but of ourselves NOT to be confused with inappropriate or immoral -they just see life and the human body as art. I’m an artist too so I get it. Your ? can only really be answered by those involved. Good luck

  44. Jazmenha

    Jack the WORST thing u can do is accuse and make assumptions-do not make such mistake! Communicate w your wife openly. I was friends w a husband and wife and tried to help him find a job and listen to him bitch about their probs and then she accused me of wanting him-LMFAO wanting a man yeah NO thanks!!!! It ruined our friendship so please DO NOT ASSUME ANYTHING -ASK YOUR WIFE ABOUT IT she deserves such respect. Again good luck

  45. Jazmenha

    And Jack -last bit of advice- just because someone is a lesbian it does NOT mean that she wants to be with every women around. This is an annoying assumption that society always falsely makes. Plus u said she’s married so maybe u are over reacting and she is just friendly and that’s all. Again do not assume. Go directly to those involved and communicate with them directly.

  46. Kenda

    I hate to say this, Jack, but you sound a little creepy. First of all, we are not “girls”. We’re grown-up womyn. Or shall I stick with the precedent you set and refer to you as a boy? Secondly, if it’s not your wife you’re worried about, why the fixation on “A”? Are you hoping to get a threesome? Or did you just enter in here as some kind of voyeur trying to solicit personal stories from lesbians? Yuck.

  47. Jazmenha

    KENDA-I TOTALLY agree – we are NOT “girls”-actually I was thinking about this earlier today and how very wrong the use of this term is. I actually correct people in real life when they use it in reference to grown up women. I just think you’re straight forward wording and approach are wonderful. Sometimes my wording is so understanding and supportive when I am also really am thinking there is a major creepy factor in the background that makes me want to gag but I focus on the helping. (Not that you are not a big helper- you have been super sweet/helpful to me.) And yes Kenda after reading Jack’s comment “share your input on clearly identifying of patterns a girl after a girl for some kind of relationship interest of some kind of either mentally, emotionally or phisicall attraction” this comment of his makes it very obvious to agree he was hoping to get some personal lesbian stories for his own personal pleasure. Ok I will now admit what I have hidden all day- YUCK!!!!!! Kenda you’re the best.

  48. Jazmenha

    KENDA- And since you brought up the creepy factor and your mutual dislike of calling women girls I just have to say that I find Jack’s word or when anyone uses it “yummy” in reference to his wife (or to any women/person) very gross and disrespectful.

  49. Rexie

    Glaringly obvious use of the name “Jack”.

  50. frank

    women falling for women is becoming very common today.i never realized that we have so many lesbians out there. this will be a problem for us straight men that are trying to meet a straight woman. i go out to the clubs on the weekends and seem to meet all the nasty ones. i consider myself an average good looking straight man hoping to find a good woman. the way these women are today is pretty much the reason why i have trouble meeting them.i see it happening to other men as well. where are the straight women out there for us good men? do you exist? where are the good places that we can meet you women today? i know if i found the right woman that i could spend the rest of my life with it would be like winning the lottery for me.

  51. Rexie

    @frank: “the way these women are today is pretty much the reason why i have trouble meeting them”

    Typical finger pointing and blaming others for shortcomings. I believe you have it wrong, and need to look in the mirror to discover why you have trouble meeting the right woman.

    I hope I don’t sound too harsh, but blaming lesbians for the reason you are desperately single is pretty stupid.

  52. Elegy

    Rexie, as you’ve already noticed, Frank is an asshole. And I find him fairly creepy as well, going on a lesbian blog to bitch his woes in the tide of straight women. Not feeling piteous. “Us good men.” Ha, good men would not wish to associate with such a misogynistic personality.

  53. Rexie

    Elegy: OMG, you’re right! I forgot about that other comment he left. Yep, totally an asshole. The responses to his first post obviously didn’t deter him from leaving a second sniveling, self-pitying comment. Aside from being misogynistic, he is also antagonistic. Oh nooooo, his issues with women couldn’t possibly be detrimental to him finding a straight female to relate to, so he blames it on the lesbians. LMAO!

  54. Jazmenha

    I think Frank and Jack should become lovers with each other. They have similar personalities and gay does mean happy right and well they both need some happiness and less up tight righteousness. (I sincerely wonder why anyone would go on a lesbian’s blog and bitch about women liking women WTF well I needed a good laugh today.)

  55. Jazmenha

    Frank and Jack make me thank God above that I’m a lesbian.

  56. Jazmenha

    Rexie I totally agree that Frank’s belame (and dislike towards) lesbians as to why he is single makes absolutely no sense. And for him to express such distaste toward lesbians taking all the woman LMAO on a lesbians blog is not only stupid but is also disrespectful toward Sasha and other lesbians. Please Frank find a straight persons blog to vent about such things. I do wish good luck to you.

  57. Kenda

    If you think about it, Frank/Jack (same person, no?), if 10% of the population is lesbian and 10% is gay male, that leaves the numbers even…90% straight female + 90% straight male. Are you having a light bulb moment? Let me help you: there is no shortage of straight women for straight men. The problem is you, my friend.

    Now, if I can get back to my lesbian friends…Jazi, I totally get what you were saying about helping people, even when you’re sensing something’s off. I’ve done that myself and think it comes from a history of being the one who has to smooth things over. Unfortunately, creeps take advantage of it. I get that and I could kind of see that happening. My jumping in was sort of my way of saying *back off and leave Jaz alone!* Haha : ) I’m glad you didn’t mind.

    Elegy – loved the first link. That would be a good one for the “When You Realize You’re a Lesbian” post.

    Rexie – I always love your comments.

  58. Rexie

    Kenda: I, too, thought Jack/Frank could be the same person. Jack writes as if he went to school for Yoda wannabe’s, either that or English is not his first language, which could be Frank in a not-so-clever disguise.

    Regardless, I will be perfectly Frank…they are both Jack asses.

  59. Jazmenha

    Kendal you “hit the nail on the head”. Thanks for holding the hammer for me. Cyber hug my friend thanks

  60. Jazmenha

    Opps Kenda sorry for the typo my dumb iPhone added a “l” to your name. I wanted to add the irony is the entire year I’ve read CCL I do not remember reading any lesbian bitching about never meeting another lesbian in such a repeatedly whinnying and disrespectful manner as Frank did about not meeting a straight woman on a lesbian blog. Deceptive Elegy 🙂 is this true? 🙂 And the lesbian whinnying would be more justified since it is MUCH more difficult to meet another woman who IS actually a lesbian- damn you Frank you are taking all our women! LMAO
    Yes Elegy,Rexie and Kenda I agree with the major creepy factor of these 2. And Rexie you’re too damn funny w your “Frankly both Jack Asses”-Rexie! LOL

  61. Jazmenha

    AHHHH damn iPhone typos meant detective Elegy

  62. jack

    dear ladies, thank you for your help, Jazmenha particularly. Sorry if I offended you with using wrong terms, it was never my intention. Thanks for the -do not assume-, and trust my wife, I do, and we have talked about this is all good, I just wanted a third opinion, no bad intention, god bless you all. Out now.

  63. Rexie

    I don’t feel bad.

  64. Detective Elegy ^_~

    Jaz- the only women I remember using the same entitled and rude approach as Frank were women who were being disrespectful towards Sasha, and later Sasha and Remi as a couple.

  65. Elegy

    Jack, it is good that you talked things out.

    Kenda- Thank you, feel free to link it there!

  66. Elegy

    Jaz, I made a special comment just for you, but it is awaiting moderation, lol!

  67. Jazmenha

    Elegy 🙂 you know I’m in aww of your detective work. It’s incredible how you can literally find anything referenced on CCL. 🙂 u know it is totally meant as a compliment. 🙂

  68. Sasha

    Wow, I really need ot keep up with comments better! Looks like I missed out!

  69. Jazmenha

    Detective Elegy 🙂 VERY good point- wow you’ve got a gift 🙂

  70. Kenda

    Sasha – Regarding missing out, I loved when I could look on the “Recent Comments” when the list was longer and see an old blog revived with new comments and be able to go read them. With only the last five showing now, we can’t do that. Would you consider bringing that back? Guess I’m too big a fan of your site. That’s a good thing, right? : )

  71. Sasha

    Dear Kenda, your wish is my command …… Is that better? 🙂

  72. Kenda

    Happy camper here! Sasha, you’re the best!!

  73. Jazmenha

    🙂 Sasha It is SO obvious who is addicted to your blog. 🙂 hehe (of course I barely read it- LOL) Keep up the great job Sasha! 🙂

  74. Natalie

    I agree with lezgrl and my experience was similar.I had my first lesbian experience in high school and married a man to keep the family happy even though secretly,I knew I was gay.After my divorce,I started dating women only and my girlfriend and I are now living together and she is amazing and an absolute perfect fit.I’m happy to be a woman and equally happy to sleep with a woman every night.Everything feels normal and I’m perfectly happy.

  75. frank says

    frank says all you lesbians should eat fish and burn in hell.

  76. Rexie

    ooooohhhh Frank….tsk tsk tsk You’re such a good man remember? I do think we’ve hit a nerve here. You don’t really like women, regardless of their orientation, and that’s your problem with finding a good one. You are only able to attract the desperate ones who probably have no intentions other than to use you, and that only feeds your disdain. I hope you get the help you need before someone gets hurt.

  77. Manda

    Reading this was very hard for me, it home in so many ways. I used to be married to man and was in a relationship with one when I met my (now ex) girlfriend. I fell in love with her and left my boyfriend for her, I realized all of the feelings I had been supressing were really okay and came out as a lesbian.
    I found out sometime into our relationship that my gf had only previously dated straight women and most of them were married or in a relationship and cheated on their men with her. They all eventually left her to stay with their men. This was hard for me but also angered me because why couldn’t she just be with femme lesbians? I never figured it out and I was the only woman who came out and stayed out after being with her.
    Thanks for this blog, I’m glad to hear that it isn’t as uncommon as I thought.

  78. Jazmenha

    Frank Listen to Rexie. You need to get help. Rexie is right “you really need to get help before someone gets hurt”. Your “lesbians should eat fish and burn in hell” comment shows no class. It shows anger. Being in the legal advocacy professional it reads as a threat to lesbians and anger management issues. Women are amazing, strong, sexy as hell :)- burn baby burn LOL, positive and powerful. I wish you peace Frank and hope you get the help you need. Again please follow Rexie’s advice.

  79. Jazmenha

    And Frank using the term “fish” in the underlining context reference you used it is very old school. LMAO
    No one uses “fish” anymore. LMAO On a serious note- life IS good Frank and I hope you move beyond your DEEP hatred towards lesbians and meet the girl you’re looking for. Trust me I have seen REAL things to be angry about – I have seen someone violently killed right infront of me, I have heard and witnessed 14 years of many stories through my intense job where people have been in and overcome gangs, violence, drugs, horrible situations where they VERY easily could have wallowed in self pity or projected their anger for their life situations on other people but they didn’t. They moved forward to success. Again please reread and reread Rexie’s wisdom and her advice to you. Because there are SO many young lesbians on CCL I do not think CCL is the best forum for your strong anti-lesbian hatred comments. Be in peace.

  80. Elegy

    Jaz, once again proving that killing ’em with kindness makes you a stone cold fox.

  81. Jazmenha

    Elegy Why thank you 🙂 I try. Hopefully Frank will get some intense anger managent and self-esteem counseling before his DEEP hatred towards lesbians and overall distaste for women in general before some innocent women gets hurt. Again I do not understand why someone would express such intense hatred towards lesbians “lesbians should burn in hell” (among many other comments) on a lesbian’s blog. Maybe he thinks this is a captive audience for his anti gay temper tantrums who knows.

  82. Dual

    Can I make two points that probably have already been made? Messing with someone who is in a relationship is tricky business. No matter what the gender combination is. I’d say it’s generally a bad idea, but I’ll let you make up your mind about this.
    Having said that, I think sexuality is fluid, and I’m not talking about “phases”, but about loving whom you love. I’ve even known a number of bisexual people (mostly men, though) who spent years trying to fit in either a heterosexual lifestyle or a gay one, and not realizing they probably would be happier if they stopped defining themselves as either. I do see this is a problem, specially if you are in a long term, commited relationship, but at the end of the day doesn’t it all boil down to treating people as you’d like to be treated?

  83. Kenda

    LMAO!! Frank, thank you for the entertainment. It was good for me. Was it good for you?

    Seriously, do you think YOU might be gay?

  84. Jazmenha

    Kenda Frank’s “eat fish” comment made me laugh so hard I almost pee my pants. LMAO poor angry bitter Frank

  85. Jazmenha

    KENDA I wonder if Frank is even aware of the disrespectful and skanky reference to “smells like fish” when he said “eat fish”. Well im sure he did- since were are ref to Frank. That makes him even grosser and even creeper if that was possible. The random usage of that lame expression on his “poor me” “damn lesbians all want eachother” tantum was I agree very entertaining. HELL yeah we all want eachother even though there are other FISH in the “sea”. LMAO

  86. anonymous

    you women that are lesbians are a bunch of ass wipe pigs. you women are so dam ugly and fat anyway and all of you are better off being lesbians. a lot of us straight guys are looking for straight women not garbage like you.

  87. anonymous

    anonymous says frank was right you women are losers and you are polluting the earth.

  88. Jazmenha

    Frank Get a fucking life and fucking leave Sasha, HER blog and those of us who are lesbians alone. WHY THE HELL IS YOUR GAY HATING ASS ON A LESBIANS BLOG???? You are beyond help. Your hatred towards lesbians is beyond grotesque. With all your different names portraying the same hate filled message and speaking in the 3rd person LOL reflects you are not mentally stable. I’m concerned for any woman or gay person that crosses your unstable and hate filled path. WE DO NOT NEED YOUR APPROVAL WE LOVE BEING OUR WOMAN LOVING SELVES. 🙂

  89. Rexie

    Good move, Sasha. Why subject ourselves to more pollution? Frank is a typical troll. They start out acting earnest to gain confidence, and then their comments begin degrading until they finally look like that last one posted. He’s so run of the mill. The aim is to ruffle feathers and cause ire. He may try to use a proxy next. At any rate, he is a total spammer who just happens to be latently gay and full of self-loathing. I normally sympathize with the likes of him, but his inward anger has twisted and now spews out as putrescent word vomit.

  90. Elegy

    HA. Like we did not see that one coming. Frank calls himself a “good man,” but no one can keep such a transparent charade up long enough- at least not to others. Franks real issue- besides a deep seated hatred of lesbians, women in general- is a complete inability to cope with the person he thinks of himself as, and the asshat he actually is. How’s that for cognitive dissonance, eh? Can’t get the good gals, because they know better, so you convince yourselves that you a)don’t want them and/or b) they must not have been good to begin with, because they didn’t recognize a catch (oh, they did recognize the catch- the catch that you’ve got issues and they should side eye and side step).

  91. Jazmenha

    If Frank is a “catch” God help us all. LOL If he sees his abnormally hate filled personality as a comparison for his perfect woman catch he will NEVER find her unless he goes to a KKK meeting where, like Frank, they share their common ground of hatred towards gays and towards people in general. Hey that’s a GREAT idea Frank- your soulmate is waiting for you at a KKK meeting- so go run off now and meet her. No thanks for this great idea necessary. 🙂

  92. Jazmenha

    Frank’s “all you lesbians are so damn ugly and fat anyway you are better off being lesbians”LMFAO- I was laughing so hard I almost pee my pants again lol yes Frank’s stupid ass ignorant comments are SO dumb they can read as pathetically “funny”. He needs WAY more help than previously thought if he thinks Sasha (part of “all” lesbians) is ugly. Sasha is by far one of the MOST beautiful woman inside and out.

  93. Jazmenha

    I just want to clarify I absolutely do not think Frank’s asshole comment are hehe happy funny I was referring to them being dumb-ass ignorant “funny”. His generalization of “ALL lesbians being fat and ugly” vas VERY rude. His deep bitterness that we are “better off being lesbians” – NO shit we are “better off being lesbians” is where his being a dumb-ass “funny” and my LMAO came in. I think he should absolutely apologize to Sasha for using her blog for his VERY anti-gay hate.

  94. Natalie

    I think that Frank’s stupid comments are a reflection of his own insecurity around women.For crying out loud,stop blaming others!
    As lesbians,we are not garbage and we aren’t harming anyone.Oh,and by the way we are not fat and ugly.Take a hike Frank and don’t come back.

  95. Jazmenha

    Natalie well said. Frank is a heartless idiot. Lesbians are so beautiful to me and to those of us lucky enough to, unlike Frank, to see the true beauty of a woman. Frank is just very angry and very mentally unstable. My claws absolutely came out when he disrespected Sasha and the gay community in general. NO human is garbage. His words are garbage and they do not deserve a second more of our time.

  96. LYMJ

    Reading this has really hit home. I have been in love with my straight married boss now for almost 8 months now. We flirted incessantly when we worked together. I left my job because my feelings were way too intense. I have been gone 3 months and have only seen her once. Getting her to go out with me was next to impossible. I had to suffer a great loss in order for her to want to see me. When we finally saw eachother, it was so obvious that the chemistry was there. Neither of us spoke of it. She is 18 years older than me, married and has 5 children. Since I feel that I have integrity, I chose not to let her know I am in love with her. I do not want to ruin her marriage. Yet being away from her is killing me.

  97. Jazmenha

    Who we spend our today’s with has tremendous impact on our tomorrows. Some times it takes years to heal. Some times it takes years to forget. Some times the missing never goes away. Neither does the regret. Choose wisely.

  98. Jazmenha

    LYMJ- Choose wisely is the best advice. I wish to God someone had just said those two words to me “choose wisely”. My life would be totally different and absent of an incredible amount of pain. Do not waste your heart on someone who is taken no matter how wonderful she is. A life time ago I dated 2 severely abusive men so yeah it’s not worth making choices that are not as good as you deserve. Ironically I just met this OMG unbelievably HOT woman we had instant chemistry BUT she is married with 2 kids so I’m absolutely NOT even going there. When she says flirty things to me I literally tune it out (of course not easy but absolutely worth it) and I hear those words “choose wisely”. I’ve had enough pain in my life and NOTHING is worth more pain. So my advice to you LYMJ is “choose wisely” because you ARE worth more.

  99. Jazmenha

    LYMJ please don’t take it as I’m down playing your feelings towards her. I totally get it that’s why I wrote the above to you. Trust me when she was hugging me the night we met saying she could hold me all night it was intense chemisty and I felt the same, however I will never allow our chemistry to go anywhere. ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Because I personally think that morally that is totally wrong (for my life I don’t judge/care what others choose w their lives) so I am not ok with that. Anyhow I wrote hoping you will learn from my story that you deserve to be with someone who can be with with you fully. Choose wisely, good luck and take care. Jaz

  100. Femmelover

    Hey, anonymous…we know who you are! LMAO. It seems like like would side with the someone like that at this point in your pathetic life. Nough said about you!

    frank/jack…notice I didn’t capitalize your names? Get a life you dick! Your jealous, dude! Hahaha! It’s obvious that straight women don’t like soo just jack off and live with it. If you ever really become a decent person maybe you will meet a good straight woman that actually likes your ass! Hope bleeds eternal, buddy!

    Jazzz…hahah! 🙂 I was laughing so hard on this quote from you -“HELL yeah we all want eachother even though there are other FISH in the “sea”. LMAO”

  101. Jazmenha

    FL -LMAO!! Yeah Frank has MAJOR issues. He’s missing a head and a heart with his SERIOUS anti gay and anti-women comments. And omg he was so self pity about no women left because we are all lesbian. LMAO!!! Of course we are!!! 🙂 And HELLO??? Who goes on a lesbian blog and critizes women wanting to be with other women. LOL But on a not funny note Frank put Sasha through stress with his horrible antigay comments he wanted her to post. Thankfully that’s all in the past and old news.

  102. Femmelover

    Yes, frank’s an ass who takes advantage of…say the opportunity that Sash is soo willing to give as a blog host. This is who she is and no idiot will take that sense of fairness away from her. She’s a writer and one thing they cherish is the right to free speech. So, I get her. Sheet! We can handle these idiots on her behalf…we always do anyway! 🙂

  103. Jazmenha

    FL – Sasha wrote an excellent post on how she will not allow anti-gay/hate comments be posted on CCL.

  104. SAM

    Have been reading these posts and they really hit home. Am a married mom of 2, recently in an affair with a single bi woman my age. It’s been so lovely, but now she is becoming distant. How do we end this gracefully when we still love each other. She wants/needs man , family, children but always ends up with losers. I

  105. Jazmenha

    SAM- Unfortunately nothing ends gracefully. Not being said disrespectfully, but this was to be expected if she’s married. I know it is very hard (I struggle with this like everyone) but it is critical to “choose wisely” even if someone is amazing if they are married or “taken” it only leads to hurt and heart attack for someone or everyone. I say this from a life time of not “choosing wisely” and now have permanent depression and social anxiety from all the abuse I’ve endured as a result of the choices of guys I dated in the past ( now I absolutely avoid/have NO interest in dating men) Anyhow, Talk with her openly. The worse thing you can do is disappear with things left unsaid to each other. Be open, honest and respectful with each other in your communication. Really think about and discuss what you both want to do in terms of your relationship. Make a choice and stick with it. Move foward in the path you all choose. Good luck. Jaz

  106. Jazmenha

    Major Typo- I meant “heart ache” hopefully no one will have a “heart attack”. lol

  107. PeRsiaN EyeS

    Hi all,
    wow what a fun forum and what great and sometimes wacky responses! So….you wana here my story? buckle in and lawyer up *****…joking.. soooo I was such a young girl…
    When I was in the 5th grade I fell in love with a girl that was sitting in the same row as me. It just happened. Boom! I know, you’re thinking, 5th grader doesn’t know what “love” is! but I did, trust me, because I knew what respect, trust, communication and believe it or not, cherishing was, at that time. What I didn’t know was the labels. Which I still don’t care for. No need to look down someone’s pants before falling for them. Anyhow, I knew I loved her so much that if she said lay down and die, I would. The following year, the same thing happened and I fell in love with another girl and now I had 2 ladies and had to manage both at the ripe age of 10! Let me point out that the young ladies knew that they wanted to hang out with me as well, but didn’t know why, maybe because I treated them SO much better than Bobby or Joey sitting next to them picking their nose?
    So Jr high came along and the list multiplied. Looking back I did truly “adored” and gave my all to each and every one of the young ladies, so I was thinking, wholly cow, am I the female version of Don Juan? am I Donna Juanna but with just the emotional part? lol…
    Anyhow, by the time I had made it as a freshmen in H.S. I had the emotional love coaster with over 30 females. I didn’t know how to handle it anymore, as I had never actually “been” with one. I just knew that I made them feel like a million $ and that they wanted to kiss my face, hug me for long periods of time and that’s where it would stop. On both ends. I knew I loved being around them, but being with them would be different. Throughout H.S. I believe the number grew to be around 50 ladies.
    So I know what you’re thinking, how? why? what do you mean you were with 50 ladies, if you weren’t with them? that doesn’t count etc. Let me put it this way, my sexuality was always in question by all of my teachers even in elementary school because girls gravitated towards me, as did I. period! I know you might be thinking, well maybe because you were some young short hair butch looking girl with no boobs so they mistook you for a guy at that age. Nope, I actually had long shinny brown hair and girly little dimples on my face and a ball of energy to light up a room.
    So my emotional exchange had now reached past the 100 mark! If you’re thinking, was she really keeping track? Yes, I kinda was, because I couldn’t believe it was happening myself! And you’re wondering, well why didn’t you try the physical part so you would know once and for all and stick with one of them!? You’re starting to sound like an emotional hoochi, if there is some a term. The answer: I didn’t want to turn it into the 31 flavors of Baskin Robbins and I believed in holding off as long as possible and give it to the right person, whatever that meant, in my head.
    So, fast forward to the college years and I thought well, it’s time to find the 1 and see if I can do both the emotional and physical at the same time! I met “her” while standing in line waiting to get food. She dropped her card and I reaching and picking it up to give it to her. She said thanks and that was it. 2 lines opened up and as we both went up to the 2 people available to take our orders, I noticed that we were both ordering the exact same thing, down to the sides and hold the pickle type of order and light ice with the tea etc.
    I thought, wow how strange! I knew she had heard it as well, but didn’t say anything. I gave her a “look” and she walked her way and I did walked mine. No sparks flying, not Hollywoody, if you will.
    Several months past by and I ran into her again, this time at the book store, and again, waiting in line. I just gave her a hello nod and smile and she did the same. We were a few people apart, but I could tell she wanted to turn around again. Nothing was said and she went off into the sunset again and I went to go to class. I sat in the back because I wasn’t in the mood to deal with anyone, and I kept wondering why I keep running into her. (meanwhile during these months, the love coaster had continued and some of them had proposed a sexual relationship to which I declined. In my head, I couldn’t justify it with anyone, not yet, I just wanted the sensual part, not sexual, and somehow I always knew that the ladies should be cherished and respected in every way possible.)
    Finally, it was the last year of college and I had yet to find the “1”.
    I was starting to give up and in. Until……yes, it was her again. I hadn’t seen her for a very long time, but here she was, right in front ordering her class ring. I kid you not, we were in line again and she was a few people ahead. My heart was racing and I didn’t even know why, because I really didn’t know her, and it wasn’t like a crush factor either. Her turn came and went and sat down with some guy to talk about it. My turn came and I sat down with some lady but couldn’t really focus on the ordering, because I noticed that she had a ring on already. Could it be? Is she getting married, was it over? The ONLY 1 after hundreds that I wanted to get serious with was now off the market? I barely placed the order and wanted to finish fast. I actually finished before her, even though I sat down after her. I waited for her to leave and out of nowhere, I just walked up and said, HI, are you getting married??! She looked at me with this very odd face and said, no, why?? I said ok, I’m sorry for asking such a personal question, but I just had to know. She said, I know we’ve run into each other from time to time, so I guess we’re graduating at the same time? I said yes, and noticing that she is changing the topic of my original question. I said something like, well I wish you the best in everything, I mean it. She said thanks you 2 and walked away. I wanted to throw up because I had never felt so sick, happy, sad and empty all at once in my life….
    Guess what.. Now I sit here, several years later…wishing I had done more, said more. After college I pulled back and put all of my energy and focus on my professional life. I became a hermit socially and even though I still have sensual thoughts, I have yet to be with…the “1”.

  108. WWG

    Er Jaz? Sam is the married one. Her love is a single bi woman who wants a man.

    Sam, you tell her “I love you enough to let you go find what you want and need. I will respect your boundaries but if you want me to meet and give you the thumbs up or thumbs down of men you meet, let me know. It might hurt, but I’ll do that for you.”

    Btw, this will be an unpopular opinion, but I’m becoming more and more convinced that many so called bi women choose great women and loser men over and over because they’re not bi, they’re gay. This does NOT mean there aren’t legit bi women out there, I’m just saying that a certain sector will likely one day wake up and realize that they aren’t bi, but gay.

  109. Jazmenha

    WWG oh it was written too confussing to tell.

  110. Jazmenha

    WWG Your advice u gave to Sam is what I did to Crush- though I’m not married. It is the fairest and best thing to do. Very hard to but but what’s best isn’t always synonymous with easy to do. I don’t understand why if Sam is married why would she care is “lady” wants a man?? She IS married herself and not available. Oh well.
    I was thinking about the dating loser men correlation with bi/lesbians so it was interesting to read what you wrote. I agree and I do think that there is some round-a-bout connection.

  111. Jazmenha

    WWG Though I DO believe bi is a TOTAL legit orientation -sometimes (rarely) I do wonder about myself being bi but then-yeah hell NO thanks. I think society pushes the straight agenda SO much that someone who is gay and not out might feel they constantly need to act straight and interact w guys but having no interest in doing so does not make the best chooses and dates assholes and suffers abuse and hurt. (speaking from experience) Yet really wanting to be w a woman she chooses the personality of the woman carefully. They get attached, fall in love…but the social anti gay pressure still surrounds. That is my interpretation of the correlation between the 2.

  112. Blue

    Ok, incoming “straight” woman…although I just don’t know anymore, and I’m not sure I care to find a label on this one even though labels have not bothered me so much before. I have been married once, never had kids…never wanted to be a parent. I CAN tell you what I am experiencing/learning so far:

    1. I am attracted to masculinity. Not necessarily machismo/domineering crap, just MASCULINE. I am discovering that the package it comes in just isn’t that important.

    2. Who is willing to step up and be a gentleman (and sometimes not so much!), who will be a compatible match of whatever kind for me?

    These are the only two things I am finding important anymore, and I am truly wishing I had fully understood BOTH of these early on in life. Would it have saved me a lot of trouble? Hello no. But yeah, I wonder if I missed some wonderful opportunities I didn’t know I had.


  113. Kenda

    @ WWG – I think you’re on to something, not only for bi women, but women who are in denial. If a woman isn’t really attracted to men and has never felt that rush or been in love with one, yet feels that she ought to be with a man, she’s not going to be putting off a vibe that tells them she’s interested in them. Most nice guys will not pursue that, but jerks will (as they don’t particularly care whether or not you want them and/or think that every woman automatically wants them). I know there are exceptions to this, but that’s pretty much how it’s worked with me and men, even my ex. And I accepted because I didn’t know it could feel any different.

  114. Loveme2

    I want to first say I am so excited I found this forum.

    My story begins last October 2010. My ex husband of 9 years and I started swinging for about 2 years. I never wanted to or fathomed the idea of being with a woman but once I did I loved it!! After 2 years of doing this our marriage started to fail. Not because of our extra activity but I fell out of love after a somewhat abusive marriage. So I meet this girl 13 years younger that started talking to him and I wouldn’t have anything to do with her. After about 2 weeks of watching him text her I told him to stop. So she began texting me I wasn’t into it at first but as we started talking I got more And more interested. I think it was the excitement of her being so young and very attractive. We talked for 1 month and I fell in love with her. We hooked up about 2 months in and by 4 months my husband moved out and began his single life. I moved her in and we have been together for 9 months now. We have a few maturity struggles but I love this girl. I am 33 with 2 kids stable job (make good money) and she is 21 . My kids think we are just best friends but she does live with us. Sleeps in my bed and we act like a family. I am very discreet with it around family and kids. No one knows fo sure about us but speculates. I’m not ready to come out with everybody just yet. Is this wrong?? If I love this girl so much should I justtell everyone or wait this out? At this moment in my life I don’t want a man or any other woman I want her. She is young beautiful soft boyish / girl look. And I love it!! I’m just scared that I have fallen so hard for her that I’m not sure I would want to see another woman if we don’t work out. Help!!

  115. Jazmenha

    @ A-I am pretty sure that most of us think cheating is as wrong and as horribly disgusting as saying the term “rug munching”.

  116. WWG

    Dear Anonymus (sic):

    I am not gay because of men. I am gay because of women. I have a tremendously great father, many great “uncles”, several close guy friends and I dated some great guys (even the not so great guys weren’t that bad) along the way. I’ve had great male bosses and colleagues as well. I love guys – just not romantically.

    And no, straight girls aren’t, as you so kindly put it, “rug munchers.” But women who’d previously thought they were straight until they started realizing they weren’t, are.

    Happy to ruin your theory,


  117. Elegy

    “Because I’m a man & I’m not a asshole.”
    “This article was obviously written by a liberal moron

    Dear Lesbians & Bi Girls: Straight girls are not interested in rug munching.”

    Sounds like Frank is back (that was his name, right? Or was it Fred? He was also an “anonymous.”

    Also, I am amused by the irony of this sentence:
    “How dare you GLBT people preach love, acceptance, while you guys keep stereotyping the opposite sex.”
    “What do you mean by ‘you people?'” XD But seriously, back the fuck up. 🙂

    “Honestly, I think the only reason WHY people are gay, or the reason why you girls are lesbians, is because they are prejudice of the opposite sex. You date a 1 bad asshole guy, then all of a sudden we’re all of a sudden “cheating dirty pigs” boys. I swear, that type of perjury seriously makes me want to be a homophobe. And I am not joking either. I’m seriously starting to hate lesbians for that reason.”
    And don’t worry about someone else making you into a homophobe, Anon- you ARE a homophobe.

  118. Jazmenha

    Elegy I think you’re rt on with the Frank/Anon/AnonYmous being the same person. Though I have chosen, for my own reasons, not to comment often anymore I will comment in defense when such hate is spread because the young lesbians reading CCL do not need to read, hear, be exposed to such volgar and ignorant hate and slang terms. Anonymous I do NOT (and never will) understand why anyone gives a shit about what someone else is doing in their intimate lives if what they are doing is not hurting anyone. Yes we lesbians LOVE to be with other women. GET OVER IT!!!!!! Yes gay men (which includes my own brother) love to be with men. GET OVER IT!!!! If you are homophobic find another blog that is not written by a lesbian- it really is THAT simple.

  119. Jazmenha

    Interesting- Anonymous (aka Frank) posted above (July 18) that lesbians are “garbage”, “ass wipe pigs” and “losers” and then turns around critizing Sam for referring to men as “losers”. And I did not see anyone “praising lesbians for cheating”. The opposite was true- the cheating was not praised- “Exhibit A” 🙂 by FL who in reference to a commenter cheating wrote “Fucking A… ” lol Oh is good to be “home” again with CCL. 🙂

  120. Rexie

    Have to agree with Elegy. Anon is a homophobe, but he is the worst kind of homophobe because I am picking up a vibe of repressed homosexuality in his rants. Nothing worse than someone who turns their self-loathing outward. He can’t bring himself to hate himself so he hates anyone who represents what he really can’t stand about himself. There are so many contradictions in his sentences that it would be hilarious if it wasn’t so scary, but I actually laughed when I read the sentence about him not being an asshole. He proves himself to be exactly that with no more effort than typing that sentence.

    He obviously has issues with women, and I would first look to his relationship with his mother. He could be very Norman Bates.

    He gets a kick out of trying to stir the pot, but I don’t think anyone here is stupid enough to become annoyed by a little troll with a teeny peeny.

  121. Femmelover

    Oh…I guess Sash removed Anon’s comments. Anyway, could this dude actually be a butch playing around? I mean, with a different email address because they sure are pressing issues that bring conflict on this site. Maybe using a different name or email address??? Just saying. Because it seems so familiar…

  122. Elegy

    Well, I for one am not going to miss those posts! 😀 Glad to see you surface again, Jaz! Hey, everyone. x3

  123. alice

    I think the whole straight women falling for lesbians thing means they weren’t completely straight to begin with. Or maybe that’s just wishful thinking on my part. XD anyways, that’s my 2 cents. 😛

  124. honu

    Very complicated topic. I wanted to chime in with my two bits. I met a straight woman 7 years ago, she left her husband, we broke up two partnerships, mine 14 years, hers 18 years, have been together since but have not managed to merge our lives together yet. Her children are now 18 and 21, but I’m here to tell you that straight woman can divorce their husbands, but they cannot divorce their lives, their children or their commitment to the family that they have started and it makes it very difficult for the gay woman coming in, not because of commmitment fears, but because you are never part of what “they” created. The kids are resentful, aloof, mean even and I have never been able to have any type of relationship with them, even to this day if they speak to me it’s a total surprise and usually because the grandparents are around or a new boyfriend and they are “busted” and have to act responsibile. The divorce, the ex, the money, the college funds, the braces, the yada yada is always between the ex’s, not something you are ever involved in and you will be reminded of this if you try to chime in. Lots of responsibility with little or no authority, best advice is to run the other direction. Yet, I’m hanging in there thinking that the children who are now officially adults will engage in their new lives and the parents will stop fighting over them and it will leave room for us to create our own lives eventually. I have never been in a relationship like this before, but being in my late 40’s, I see that there is no dating in later life that doesn’t come with lots of life’s circumstances. It’s not like starting out at 20 and wondering what your girlfriend will become one day with lots of support, she has already become and is living with her choices as you are. Blended families are tough, gay or straight, but moms, gay or straight, are very commited to their children and new lovers will find themselves in a competition at some point, jockying for the attention that once came so easily in other relationships. Fear of being engulfed by becoming lesbian step-ma ma has kept me from inviting my girlfriend to move in, then my life becomes soccer vans and dirty tennis shoes and vomited up boonesfarm apple wine on my carpet (do they make that anymore?) and endless boy drama etc. Girlfriend really enjoys being part of their lives and I enjoy her enjoyment and participation- from my house. I think I shall do better when the kids are former kids, then we can go to lunch and they can spill their facebook secrets over sushi and green tea and I can wish them well and support any new ideas with enthusiasm. Dating someone with a ready made family is difficult, Ashton Kutcher I am not. Dating someone who can’t decide whether they are straight or gay but are flirting with the no-no side is an entirely different matter, and affairs are not fair period, you will always regret them. Women with children will always have a rescue-able quality to them, and women who rescue those women will always have rescue issues, the real lesson is how to participate in relationships that are nurtured on a level playing field with truth, vulnerability, willingness and intimacy.This requires maturity and I believe we achieve this through trial and error, the tricky part is to try not to repeat the same mistakes twice and or act out your neurotic behaviors in an attempt to heal while hurting others or yourself. Relationships are tough, but they give me the meaning that I need in life, and are worth the lesson every time.

  125. Lori

    I have come to believe that, human sexuality is so complex as a whole. It seems it is as unique as every person that has ever lived. I have never chosen who I am attracted to but, I have chosen who I fall in love with. Of course, it is either there or it’s not. Once I get to know a woman I am attracted to, it will become obvious whether the potential to fall in love is there or not. If it is, and the circumstances surrounding her are not suitable for me to continue the friendship, I will stop contact for the sake of all involved. This is the morally right thing to do. I know it is hard, BELIEVE ME! But as long as I am around her, I will think on her in a way that is more than just friends (human nature). I know this mat sound boring but, for me to expect to be treated with integrity in a relationship, I must have it. If I say I have the capacity to love, I have to ask myself what love REALLY looks like? Am I loving needs, or others more? If I can learn this way of being, I have a better chance of finding a relationship that will last a lifetime..hopefully. I have made lots of mistakes and don’t want anymore heartache so, If I find real love again (mutual) or, spend the rest of my life single, at least I can hold my head up in the day and,lay it down in peace at night. Btw, WOMEN ARE BEAUTIFUL AND COMPELLING!! ;^d

  126. Hightide83

    I am a straight male but I am attracted to butch looking lesbians like Jiz Lee. Accidently found this site looking for “straight men attracted to butch women” but haven’t been able to find good material on the web.

    I would say I am sorta of a feminine guy but I like a manly looking and acting women. I wouldn’t say im gay because I know im not into penis but I am trying to figure out what category i fit in lol

    Alot of straight guys like watching lipstick lesbians kiss but I get super turned on by the butch


  127. Jazmenha

    Hightide83 One of my very dear guy friends is similar to what you are saying. We always talk about how very hot butches are. OMG they turn us on so much 🙂 but he is a gay male so he doesnt want the physical part w them he just comments from a far. Actually he believes to the core that he himself is actually a lesbian himself. 🙂 He is the cutest- i just love this dear friend!! He is going through questioning if he is trans-gender etc. What im trying to say is don’t try to label who you are or who/what look you are attracted to just be yourself.

  128. Heart broken

    I am in my 30s and have lived a basically straight life. All hetro relationships. I have had 2 sexual experiences with women and have kissed or been kissed by a number of them, mostly just hetro or bi friends.

    I was in a relationship with a man for 5 years and I was over due on getting out of it… No longer happy. I am at an event and meet (we will call her Katy for this post) Katy, she is a lesbian and on the butch side but with great style and swagger. I can tell she is attracted to me and I find myself attracted her. It messes with my head becuase I am shocked that I am attracted and drawn to her like I am. She goes out of her way to make a connection with me, she knows I am in a relationship. She persues me and I in turn allow it and am there every step of the way. I leave the X within a 2 week period. She is happy about it, she actively pushes to keep me from getting to over whelmed or scared while going through the process of dating my first woman. Our chemisty and connection is instant and strong. She has me around her family quickly and they love me since I am the most put together/healthy person she has dated in a very long time. Katy initiates the love talk, possibility of kids and tells me numerous times she knows it’s not a matter of if but when she will marry me.

    3 months into it she started getting scared, focusing on what she can’t do for me and our differences rather than all the things we have that are great. Her X has a medical issues and before you know it Katy is having 2nd thoughts about her, leaves state, changes her # without giving it to me…. She says she loves me but has to figure out her issues… Just don’t understand how someone can go form seeing forever in me to running scared…. She pushed for this, drew me out of my shell, I went through the emotional stress of changing my life, having difficult conversations with friends since I chose her, I chose to live and love the lesbian way just for the door to be slammed…. Wish I had a crystal ball here on this one! Is she scared or loves the chase, loves to “flip” a hetro her way???? I do know that now I firmly label myself as bi, there is no doubt about that. If I could have the emotional/physical connection to another woman I would absolutely date her…. Well that is if and when I heal from this crazy rollercoaster and if I am willing and able to put myself out there in such a complete way without fearing it taking place all over again.

  129. Rexie

    @Heart Broken: You came to the right place if you are seeking solace and answers. Sasha, her guest bloggers, and the women who comment here, are amazingly intelligent, warm, caring and collectively, have just about seen it all. I am sure some of them will have good words of advice. I am so sorry for what has happened to you. There are a lot of details that were not included that would give us the full picture, but it sounds to me like she was not completely over her ex, and you may have been a rebound relationship for her. The fact that she rushed in and moved so quickly is my first clue. Sometimes people are hurting over a failed relationship so they look for someone to help them feel something other than the hurt they are drowning in. You were the rope she used to pull herself out with. If you look at it in a positive light, at least you now have some experience with women and know what it is to be with one. Your story is so much like others I have heard, it seems to be an initiation ritual for lesbians. Don’t make the mistake of doing to someone else what she did to you. As much as the process sucks, allow yourself time to heal so you are fully available to the next person who is lucky enough to make it past the dating stage with you. Get out and meet people, lots of them, but just don’t be so quick to hand over your heart until you are sure you’re not being taken for a ride. Also, try to stay out of the back and forth lesbian drama. The push-me, pull-you, loves me, loves me not, type of bs. If she is back with her ex, for whatever reason, don’t allow her to bounce back and forth. That scenario is like the Bermuda Triangle, you’ll get stuck in it and you won’t be able to move forward. Best of luck to you.

  130. Elegy

    “If she is back with her ex, for whatever reason, don’t allow her to bounce back and forth. That scenario is like the Bermuda Triangle, you’ll get stuck in it and you won’t be able to move forward. Best of luck to you.”
    Rexie, once again able to summarize all the thoughts flying through my head. Pretty much the best advice I’d be able to give- believe it or not, the non-committal (or the illusion of commitment) is actually the easy way out. Not the fair one.

  131. Jazmenha

    @Heartbreak Be VERY careful who you spend your time with because some scars never go away resulting in you becoming too damn guarded and scared to be open to what could be a positive experience because of these scars. Judge the character VERY carefully of those you spend time with. I didn’t in my 20s and now in my 30s well… 🙁 And because of these scars I’ll probably end up alone w my big empty heart. 🙁 Oh if only I could turn back time. Please be carefully who you trust. If a relationship is unhealthy it will NEVER become healthy. (Yes I’ve had a VERY hard day and I am currently “Bitter Betty”.)
    I agree with Rexie. Sasha and the CCL guest writers are incredible writers and good salt of the earth people. Most likely you will become addicted hehe like all of us (very appreciative) commenters/readers who love CCL and greatly admire Sasha. Jaz

  132. WWG

    @Heart Broken – here’s your answer right here:

    “She has me around her family quickly and they love me since I am the most put together/healthy person she has dated in a very long time. Katy initiates the love talk, possibility of kids and tells me numerous times she knows it’s not a matter of if but when she will marry me.

    She’s not a healthy person. Anyone who pushes into a relationship that quickly is *rarely* healthy. That’s not to say that it doesn’t happen, but the fact that her family says you’re the most put together person she’s dated in awhile is the hint. Unfortunately, you fell for someone who isn’t put together/healthy.

    However, she did you a favor. She got you out of a relationship you needed out of anyway. She got you to open up to the possibility of women. Thank her for that (to yourself), and move on. And don’t do what she did. Take your time to be single for awhile. Then, date, and go slowly. Real love doesn’t happen overnight. That’s infatuation.

  133. Jazmenha

    Heartbreak- if she cones back to you do not under any circumstances fall for her/have anything to do w her again. She is not worth it. She sounds like she has major control issues, get what she wants and is gone. Healing takes a long time but you must realize you are absolutely worth the healing progress. You did nothing wrong. She ran away like a chicken without discussing things in an adult and humanitarian/kind way. If I am learning anything through things I’ve experienced – you can NOT let other people’s (horrible/hurtful) mistakes become your issues. -Omg today I struggled w this. Hang in there. Realize we ONLY hurt ourselves when we think about those who hurt us. -Omg today I struggled w this. Hang in there. They say “the best revenge is a good life”. – Tomorrow I will again get back on track w remembering this. Hang in there. One day at a time- read the Serrenity (spelling?) Pray- courage…wisdom…Knowledge. Good luck.

  134. Raye

    Ok putting aside the fact that the way you described this person sounded like you insinuated that a person can have style and swagger DESPITE being “on the butch side”, I’ll let that slide. As a real butch with a good sense of style and a decent amount of swagger myself… (I’ll call it self-confidence for the sake of argument)let me add my two cents for whatever it’s worth. I think you got played by a bonafide playa. I agree with the assessment WWG and Rexie offered (as usual) but I think it is a combination of all of it (including your thoughts about being flipped) and that this is not a healthy individual. I really can’t speculate on the psyche of this person you describe as “on the butch side” because I don’t have a fucking clue what that means. But usually a butch with so-called style & swagger has insecurities and something to prove to herself and the rest of the world who thinks that no one finds us sexy. I have seen this story a million times. Putting the ex-drama aside, this butch wants to prove that she can bag the straight girl. And it is not just about the sex. Just getting you into bed is not enough. It is about making women fall in love just to prove they can do it… and you fell hook line and sinker. Once she saw that she could get you but knew she didn’t really love you, she dumped you. The first clue should have been her effortless speed at throwing around the love words and encouraging you to dump the other relationship. I am not sure how to break this to you but the ones with the noticeable “swagger and style” are the most dangerous. A real confident, secure butch is not like that. They are in no hurry to throw words like marriage and love around. They are probably more reluctant to date you than you are to date them. Because they want you to be sure what you want before you get into a relationship and decide you really liked men after all. Anything that moves that fast is ridiculous. Chalk it up to a lesson learned. Unfortunately some of us are fucking overgrown, insecure, adolescents running around trying to be Lotharios. You will know how to spot them next time. I know it sounds harsh but yall know me… the butchie that likes to keep it real. I am sorry you encountered this prick. But rest assured we are not all that way.

  135. Jazmenha

    Very well written Raye. I knew someone would mention the dress/swagger comment (personal I think that look is hot) Ok now I have to refocus hehe. I am telling you all I am just getting a pet! So much easier! It makes me beyond sick and deeply saddend how people use people. OMG people before you screw someone over (literally and figuritively) remember that person IS someone’s sister, daughter, friend, someone’s family member etc NOT just some fucking blow up doll. We ALL deserve the human respect. OMG Treat people as you want to be treated!!!!

  136. Jazmenha

    And totally agree w “.. but the ones with the noticeable “swagger and style” are the most dangerous.” This goes for all genders and orientations and hell no I for one am not having that. Had enough of that mess back in the day and lucky now I read through that like a transparent magazine – I don’t want all the advertisements I want a story with depth and substance. With many chapters not just Cliff Notes. I wish that commenter inner strength and eventual peace of the past- not easy to achieve (omg i could write a book on that- oh wait I write a blog on that subjects 😉 ) be kind to yourself because you are worth more than the memory of the pain. Jaz

  137. Heart broken

    Thank you to each of you for your feed back, I do appreciate it! I “thought” she had depth of character and personality…. I am typically a good judge of character, no young buck (37) and have dated the pretty boy type on the hetro side… That being said I have come to realize a few things: She is not as put together as I thought, has way more issues, has control issues and due to her past finds her self worth in sweeping in and being the “night in shining armor” to the wayward female… I am not needy enough to for her…

    Ok – QUESTION – Do most people tend to fall harder or in some way deeper in their 1st lesbian relationship? I heard this once but have not clue if that is mith or not.

    UPDATE – OH the roller coaster. 1 hr phone conversation about how she misses me more as she is gone. Next day email that she has to stay out of town and work, fix her self and stop running….. 3 days later she calls to say she is coming home, loves me and nothing else matters… 6 hrs later she can’t sign the disolusion papers because she is still in love w/ the X…. Yes the have a civil union filed. OK – no need to really comment on the update. I get it…. I have jumped off of her rollercoaster and am no longer allowing her to drag me through her emotional mess. In love with 2 people never works.

    Question – Now I have to look at what dating looks like for me going forward (after I get over all of this and do some internal searching). I have always dated men up until now. I was with her for 4 months. I enjoyed sex, she was able to figure me out better than mates in the past, I was comfortable with public affection most of the time. Please keep in mind I live in a town of 290k and am in sales industry that loves some good gossip. I bonded to her emotionally, I loved how safe I felt… That being said I am attracted to men. Figuring out if I date men or women or both and what kind of repercussions that can have in each circle. In the lesbian terms I would be a lipstick, long hair, make up, heals, lipgloss, skirts and dresses and all the fun fem stuff. I am also a professional business women. From what I read women that date both or are bi don’t have it all that easy in the lesbian arena. I’m sure this question will open a can of worms!!!! So let me hear your thoughts….

    Thank you all for helping me sort through all of this, it is APPRECIATED! And PS – Her last stunt pissed me off enough that I am not currently as heart broken as I was… I am nobodies 2nd choice or maybe. Not said in a cocky way, just in a had enough and know the value I can bring to a relationship kind of way.

  138. WWG

    @heartbroken – good for you. Your last comment wasn’t cocky, it was smart. “Never make a priority someone who only makes you an option.”

    As for who you choose to date next, let your heart be your guide. You obviously had the ability to date her openly, so the proverbial, ahem, cat’s out of the bag that you’re not totally heterosexual. For awhile I let my fear of what others would say keep me from openly dating women. While I don’t walk around saying “Hi, I’m WWG and I’m a big ole lesbo”, I don’t hide who I want either. The general reaction has been, well, underwhelming. No one really cares. I work with the public a lot too, so I get it.

    Remember this – at the end of the day, there are only two people in your bed – you and whomever you choose. Not your family, not your friends, not society. Just the two of you, so you have to be comfortable with that person, because you will be literally and figuratively naked with them.

  139. Raye

    Again WWG well said. I personally am a little skeptical. Because here is the deal, you said that you are concerned about how well a bisexual person is received in the lesbian community. Well, you yourself just said a mouthful as to explaining why that is. I for one am all for having more butch-loving girly girl femmes in our community but you just sat there and spewed a bunch of crap about how you need to weigh how society around you will react to your relationships. Bingo. I rest my fucking case. Personally it kinda pisses me off that I have to deal with society all day every day and someone like YOU cares more about what everyone else thinks than you would about me. (hypothetically speaking) How do you think that makes us feel when you have to weigh dating us vs. dating a man based on what society thinks?? This is why I say fuck you to those who tell me to be so open to bisexuals. Why should we? They don’t give a damn what our fears are. All they do is bitch about not being trusted or accepted and then say shit like this. I don’t give a fuck how small your city is. I live in a city of 49,000 people where everyone knows my grandma the preacher. People talk shit about me and my girlfriend all the time but ya know what?? I don’t hide who I am from my 11 year old son and he proudly waves the rainbow flag when we are at the Pride Parade. In FACT we were on the front page of the newspaper a couple of years ago in the 4th largest city in the United States kissing each other while our son waved the rainbow flag in a redneck fucking state that hates us and would rather see us dead. So yeah come whining about what you have to deal with if you date a lesbian. THIS is why I don’t trust bisexuals. And the rest of you who come trying to spew some politically correct LGBT community support bullshit at me know where to put that shit because I don’t see yall telling the bisexuals to be more supportive.

  140. Jazmenha

    Heart Broken Unless you live in Disneyland no one has it easy in this world- gay or straight. People talk shit all the time weather you are in or out of the closet and weather you are gay or straight. I have a very “professional job” too- very public child advocate high level and intense, dangerous at times with the clients or situations. I’m pretty sure most if not all lesbians have professional jobs. We are just normal people. My brother is a very out gay- and just got married in NY. Yes he got a hard time but he is happy to be out. To be himself. I am not out though several people assume already (including my mom and random coworkers), but I dealt w supporting my brother’s and parent’s pain/drama for 4 years after he came out so that combined w being single I just keep quiet about it- well I do throw out hints 😉 “she is hot!” etc so now when we walk past a butch my brother automatically says “There is your girlfriend” 🙂 too funny/cute. However I do not date men – have no interest in doing so. I know when I meet the rt woman I’ll find the courage to say something to the world because I will never hide someone or make them feel in any way they are anything less than important to me.

  141. Rexie

    @Heart broken: You sound like a pretty smart person, and are aware that girl was using you to make her feel better. When she’s out with one, she’s in with the other. Ugh. I’d change my number if I were you. Not that you’d be turning the tables on her or anything, but it’s best to get away from emotional messes like her. You have a lot of figuring out to do on your own. I wonder since you like men so much, if you would have eventually left her to go back to the safe side, once the novelty of being with a woman wore off and your curiosity was satisfied. Maybe she was throwing around the long-term language such as kids and marriage to try to gauge if you’d be around that long. You are correct in that there is much distrust in the lesbian community for bi-sexual women, not in the least because of the fear that a bi will eventually leave a woman for a man. I am sure there is more than a little of that happening, but I still say, and I’m not trying to be PC, that a person should be able to love who they love and not suffer judgment from either community, or from the world at large. It’s perfectly acceptable to have a preference and as Raye demonstrated, many lesbians prefer not to date bi’s. If this girl was a one off, you can now return to the straight life with no guilt. But it’s my guess that you won’t stay there for long.

  142. Raye

    It needs to stop being called judgement when lesbians protect themselves. No one is judging her for who she loves. If she figures out that she loves both then so be it, but do it out and proud. Don’t base your “love” for someone on what the rest of society thinks about your relationship and what you will deal with and then come crying to the lesbian community for how you are persecuted. It is insulting to the rest of us who have the balls to deal with it every day and not care that our life is not the white picket fenced American Dream because we know that who we are as humans ourselves and the person we love are both worth telling the rest of the world to fuck off. If you can’t handle that, then you have no business messing around with any lesbian. Case closed.

  143. Heart broken

    I would be a fool if I got on here and said that what society thinks and how they judge didn’t play a role in my own mind. It does… That being said it is NOT a huge role. I made the choice to date “Katy” and in a fairly short time told everyone in my circle of friends and a few months later my siblings. So, NO, I don’t care more about what society says… I would never want to hide who I am with, no person is going to be my secret… What I care about is finding a person that has honor, respect, love, compasion, who opens my door and takes care of me… Someone that I can love, respect, give attention to and so on… If that comes packaged weather that package comes in the form of a woman or a man.

    Jazmenha – I fully agree, by hiding someone it implies shame and if I love someone I would NEVER want them to feel that. It’s why the people I was close with in my life, about 15 of them, knew after the 1st month. I didn’t deny my affection in public, I loved her and that love helped me to be open. Ok, I really need to get my ass off to work!

  144. Raye

    Yay you kissed a girl and you told all your friends. Congratulations. None of that matters in the short haul. Like Rexie said, what matters is if you are capable of being in it for the long haul with a woman. What happens when you get bored? Do you really think that relationships never go through boring phases? Maybe you were bored with your boyfriend which is why the dangerous lesbo was appealing to you? As a butch lesbian, I have WAY TOO MANY times seen bored women want to leave their boyfriends/husbands to pursue their curiosities with women…. namely me. Take a look on Craigslist, there are thousands of them. Sure right now you say you are just looking for someone to love you, respect you, hold doors for you, blah blah blah ad nauseum. But riddle me this… if you had an attractive man and an attractive woman both who treated you perfectly and exactly how you wanted it, which one would you choose? I’m sorry but I’m not buying it. And the reason I am not is because you think society’s pressures and judgement is a viable reason for choosing one sex over the other. That tells me that YOU are the one playing.

  145. Raye

    Now that we have been thoroughly distracted, I would like to respond to hightide83. Are you sure you are straight? I mean it is not uncommon for more feminine men, especially gay men to be attracted to me so you are not weird. But I have to wonder if this is just a step to you moving towards full on homosexuality and your mind is just trying to process it within the scope of your comfort level. When I was in high school a particularly feminine boy used to write me love letters and I thought it was flattering but oddly enough I was just not all that interested. He is gay now. I can only imagine the comedy our relationship would have been if I had chosen to pursue it. I am just curious though, what is it that you intend to get from a butch lesbian? What do you want or expect from that kind of relationship? I wore the pants in my married life to a guy and it was very unfulfilling for me. In fact I remember saying often that if I was going to provide for my family like a man I certainly wasn’t going to do so for a man. But then I wanted a woman. Masculine and feminine energy mesh so well together. It is why I love the butch femme dynamic. But then I have seen transgendered men and women fall for each other after having both flipped genders so human sexuality is a very complex thing. Many of my FTM friends have actually become gay men. Figure THAT one out if you will.

  146. Kenda

    I have to say that what Raye’s talking about, being out in public as a butch and catching hell for it, I don’t think someone who doesn’t look butch can understand the magnitude. I really started to become aware of how differently people treat me based on what I’m wearing/how I’m presenting when I started to relax my dressing for approval standards I was raised with. The more feminine I dress, the more approval/smiles/doors opened I get. The more tomboy or masculine, the more snubs/looks down the nose and just plain rudeness comes my way. I try to fathom what that must be like x 100 EVERYDAY, EVERYWHERE, ALL THE TIME. I get that butches would want others to stand with them. A public show of support is a very powerful thing, not only for our butches, but the youth who are watching and the bullies who fear resistance. Even sweet little grandmas can be bullies, make no mistake.

    On the other hand, for somebody like Heart Broken, it’s a different thing to be thrown into the lion’s den and the doors slammed shut behind you. It’s another to be thrown in with the gates left open. I think a grace period is due to allow the weighing of what’s important in life and what one chooses to stand for in a new situation. Because some people do stand the test of time. Just sayin’, Raye.

    Heart Broken – If you haven’t read it already, there’s a great book out titled, “Dear John, I Love Jane”. It might help with a few of your questions.

    @ WWG – Love the “Never make a priority someone who only makes you an option” quote.
    @ Jaz – And yours “I don’t want all the advertisements I want a story with depth and substance”, yes!

  147. Raye

    Kenda I am all for grace periods to figure yourself out. I just don’t think you should bring someone into your grace period with you.

  148. Kenda

    Ha! Like I said Raye, it’s good to have you back.

  149. Rexie

    Going off topic a bit, but why stop calling it what it is? “Judgment” isn’t necessarily negative, it can be positive, too. It is different than preference. The definition of judgment: “the forming of an opinion, estimate, notion, or conclusion, as from circumstances presented to the mind”.

    People can prefer, or be attracted to, one type of person but they shouldn’t be judged for whatever it happens to be. Providing it is consentual anything should be allowed and accepted as normal. A person should be free to only love people with three eyes, and no one should bat an eye because of it. If a lesbian chooses not to date bi-sexual women, then that’s their perogative and the world should not form an opinion of their choice, one way or the other. Same goes for a woman who has no preference. They should be accepted as a person, and their sexual preference should be a non-issue. That isn’t to say that someone has to be open to dating everyone. It is only to say that just because someone can love both men and women, they shouldn’t be considered flakey, wishy washy, or risky.

  150. PB

    Late to the discussion, my two cents:

    Heartbroken: Date men. You are attracted to men, you are used to dating men, men are okay, there’s always some guy who wants to open doors and “take care of you” and be your “knight in shining armor”. Or date bi-women, you can share a lot, you both know where you stand about your attractions, and they are girls, too.

    You used “Katy” to get out of your 5 year relationship with some unsuspecting dude, and you are shocked, shocked, you say, that “Katy” dumps you to go back to her ex or work on “her issues”. Neither of you are ready for a relationship if you ask me (no one did).

    Frankly, who you date (male or female) is not going to change your life for the better. It seems to me that old saw comes in to play here: “Everywhere you go, there you are.”

    Too harsh?

    Frankly I am tired of straight girls f*ing with butches because they want an exciting fling with dangerous, and yes, I am very protective of butches, even as I know, yes there are butch players. Because, I flat out love butches, not men, there’s absolutely no hedging here.

    Ah, tonight I must be getting into my long overdue middle aged cranky pants (leggings). Apologies.

  151. Jazmenha

    There is so much discrimination against gays/lesbians that we ourselves feel we have to prove ourselves, define ourselves, defend ourselves. Even against ourselves and within our “community”. Strange slanted definition of society. I have seen what my brother went through. I went through it ever step of the way with them for 4 years. I’m in the closest not because I am ashamed of who I am (hell no, I love who I am – smiles) but because I’m ashamed of who society is. I know that when my love comes I will be out for her and not for society. And I have to add the descrimination I have witness butchies go through is beyond awful and only increases my love and respect for them.
    @ Heartbroken Your first post sounded so hurt, so much pain, lost, so reaching out. Your next post that same day sounded totally the opposite. You will be fine.

  152. Heart broken

    Guess I got my answers…. JUDGEMENT from most and not from others…. I am getting a better understanding of why… Thank you all for the education. .

    I guess there are plenty of ladies that just want to test the water and play out a fantasy. That was not me…. I did some of that in my younger years, drunk kissing, make out sessions with friends (not wiht lesbians). This was different, it was a relationship. So I get being protective of the butches, I watched the looks “Katy” got and the looks I got for being by her side holding her hand. Those looks didn’t make me let go, it made me hold on tighter and look at them in the eye. Not all bis are out to hurt, use someone or just play around. My wondering is because I could really envision my life with her… Now that there is no her I know that I am fully capable of loving, being with, having a satisfying sex life and emotional connection to a woman.

    Kenda – thanks for recommending the book, I will check it out! And yes before I get involved with anyone I am going to spend some time reflecting. This bi is not out to hurt anyone and isn’t into playing games.

  153. Jazmenha

    Heartbroken You truly will be ok. You seem to have a lot of inner strength and a secure sense of selfworth- trust me that is SO incredibly important. I have been through an incredible amount of shit in my life so any words I have written to you have come from a place of being a surviver and thriver on so many levels I wouldn’t even know where to begin. I get told all the time I’m so strong and so positive despite what I’ve been through. But the truth is I am so strong and so positive because of how I have overcome and dealt with what I have been through. Hell yes I would change it and never have gone through the hard times but I did and you did and life keeps moving forward. Every tear u cried for Katy will make u a better person in the end- tears help clear our vision to see our true priorities in life. Reading your first post I was so worried for you. Reading your second post I was no linger worried for u because I could tell deep inside u have the necessary “kiss my ass” strength to deal with difficulties. That is a good and necessary inner strength to have. So again, I know you will be fine.

  154. Elegy

    I think that you are now aware that you can date women, so when you self reflect, also consider this: what is your dating style? How strongly do you wish to be with a woman? Because if your desire to be with a woman isn’t strong than being with a man, you will probably end up with a man. Especially if you prefer to be pursued. It’s mostly a numbers and upbringing thing- men are used to being in this position, and used to assuming that whichever woman they hit on will potentially be attracted to them (at least, straight or mostly straight).

    If you want a woman, you’re going to have to put yourself out there more, and may have to be put into the position of a pursuer.
    For women, if you don’t necessarily want to be the pursuer, then make some online accounts on, Chemistry (is that the site? ITS…), and OKCupid, listing that you also like women. You’ll figure it out. 🙂

  155. Heart broken

    Kenda – down loading the book now, will start reading it Thursday on my flight to Portland, thanks.

  156. WWG

    Yeouch Raye, you went IN! I can absolutely see your side of things, to the best of my ability. However, as a non-butch woman who rarely gets viewed as anything but straight, I guess in some ways I don’t fully get it because I haven’t walked a mile in your shoes. You’re going to be upset with me, but there are plenty of times I choose not to come out. I realize that’s not a choice you get. However, it took me a LONG time to be okay with being out. The women I choose to date are obviously gay and I’d be lying if I didn’t say that that scared me at first.

    Then again, I think this poor woman came to us to explain and get some support for a woman who did her wrong. She’s said she was proud of her and open about their relationship. Many women NEVER get that far, so Heartbroken I applaud you for that.

    Raye, please allow her the space to transform her head into accepting this new identity before you rip into her. As you know, it’s a hard thing to change not only how you view yourself to the world, but to be aware of how the world will change their views towards you. It took me, a woman who had been out previously, a good couple of years to really wrap my head around it. It’s not easy no matter what you look like or who you are, and we each have to walk our own paths towards being out.

  157. WWG

    Okay, I started writing my response earlier and then posted it when I got back home, before I got a chance to see everyone else’s answers. I am baffled by the evisceration of Heart Broken. Yes, she asked for our point of view (which, frankly, is no one’s choice but your own HB), but what’s the matter with welcoming someone to, ahem, our side? Can we not make it *easier* on bi women to want to date women? Don’t we *want* more women to be out, to walk proudly with their girlfriend? To not hurt butches and other lesbian women by freaking out and going back to men?

    HB, I hope you date more women. I hope you find a great woman who has her head on straight (and let’s be real – her issues weren’t a woman or man thing, but an immature human thing) and will love you and care for you like you deserve. You sound like a smart woman who is willing to and interested in being a great girlfriend. That said, definitely be single for awhile. You’re recovering from two relationships. Be kind to everyone, including yourself and be single, figure out what *you* want and need and then go out there and get it.

    Oh, and as for your town and the salespeople? I’ve worked with salespeople. They’ll gossip about ANYTHING. Doesn’t matter what you do. You could be Mother Theresa in a supermodel’s body with the IQ of Einstein squared and they’ll find something to pick at you about. So forget it. Get over it and make sure to live your life for you and follow your own desires.

  158. Jazmenha

    Heartbroken I really hope you read my last comment to u because it was meant to give u encouragement that no matter what happens in life if u have a strong center u can overcome anything. It sincerely sucks what happened to u- opening up is so hard (I know, I understand)- trusting someone is so hard ( I know/I understand), u feel like u will never be the same and honestly u won’t (trust me I really know this personally). My advice is to go through the grieving stages- anger, denial, loss, grief, acceptance (not sure of order). Google search “stages of the grieving process” and allow yourself to go through them. Trust me do it now. Begin to heal now. Do not wait. Rely on yourself and the necessary “kiss my ass” strength u have deep inside. I was attacked (by a guy I trusted) 5 years ago and I NEVER went through any healing process and was stuck/paralyzed. Until now. I am healing now. 5 years later I am healing BUT now I have 5 years of being guarded and not trusting that I have to heal from too. I mention this to u HB because I DO NOT WANT U OR ANYONE TO GO THROUGH THAT PAIN. I tell u what, Heartbroken, do a search on the “grieving process”- go through the stages of grieving and know that I too will be doing the same. Good luck to you.

  159. Jazmenha

    I know you situation was TOTALLY different then mine. Yours was a mutual love relationship. However ANY extremely painful loss involves the stages of the grieving process for full healing.

  160. Jazmenha

    Here is the grief model called “The 7 Stages of Grief”:

    7 Stages of Grief…

    1. SHOCK & DENIAL-
    You will probably react to learning of the loss with numbed disbelief. You may deny the reality of the loss at some level, in order to avoid the pain. Shock provides emotional protection from being overwhelmed all at once. This may last for weeks.

    2. PAIN & GUILT-
    As the shock wears off, it is replaced with the suffering of unbelievable pain. Although excruciating and almost unbearable, it is important that you experience the pain fully, and not hide it, avoid it or escape from it with alcohol or drugs.

    You may have guilty feelings or remorse over things you did or didn’t do with your loved one. Life feels chaotic and scary during this phase.

    Frustration gives way to anger, and you may lash out and lay unwarranted blame for the death on someone else. Please try to control this, as permanent damage to your relationships may result. This is a time for the release of bottled up emotion.

    You may rail against fate, questioning “Why me?” You may also try to bargain in vain with the powers that be for a way out of your despair (“I will never drink again if you just bring him back”)

    Just when your friends may think you should be getting on with your life, a long period of sad reflection will likely overtake you. This is a normal stage of grief, so do not be “talked out of it” by well-meaning outsiders. Encouragement from others is not helpful to you during this stage of grieving.

    During this time, you finally realize the true magnitude of your loss, and it depresses you. You may isolate yourself on purpose, reflect on things you did with your lost one, and focus on memories of the past. You may sense feelings of emptiness or despair.

    7 Stages of Grief…

    As you start to adjust to life without your dear one, your life becomes a little calmer and more organized. Your physical symptoms lessen, and your “depression” begins to lift slightly.

    As you become more functional, your mind starts working again, and you will find yourself seeking realistic solutions to problems posed by life without your loved one. You will start to work on practical and financial problems and reconstructing yourself and your life without him or her.

    During this, the last of the seven stages in this grief model, you learn to accept and deal with the reality of your situation. Acceptance does not necessarily mean instant happiness. Given the pain and turmoil you have experienced, you can never return to the carefree, untroubled YOU that existed before this tragedy. But you will find a way forward.

    7 stages of grief…

    You will start to look forward and actually plan things for the future. Eventually, you will be able to think about your lost loved one without pain; sadness, yes, but the wrenching pain will be gone. You will once again anticipate some good times to come, and yes, even find joy again in the experience of living.

  161. Heart broken

    Jazmena – Yes I did read your post and thank you! I would say I’m firmly in stage 3…. Especially after looking at her X’s FB page and noticing she want from single to married today… I know, why even look and torture myself!!! I tend to be guarded by nature and that is why this has been so hard. Katy was able to keep my guard down and lure a very intense love/connection out of me. It was SO great and now so HARD… Anger helps for the moment. I hope that the good intensity I found in her can be found in another. What I definately wonder is if that level of intensity one of the differences in lesbian vs hetro relationships. The female emotional connection…. If so going hetro may be difficult, that kind of intinsity is a drug I could get use to having.

  162. Elegy

    I have not experienced that intensity with a man. It’s just different. I’m sure gay men feel the same way about what they get out of the same sex. It’s a calling just as much as a craving.

  163. Jazmenha

    HB Just be careful not to jump into anything too fast and be careful to not totally shut down either. I’ve done the 2nd to the extreme. I let myself go hoping to have people no longer find me attractive as not to get hurt again. Do not do that. U are worth much more than that. I went from modeling and dancing to not wanting to leave my apt, dressing very nuetral etc., never putting any effort into how I looked etc. I realize now that my abuser was LONG gone BUT now I was the one harming myself. I beg you not to do that to yourself. Each day I get stronger, some days hurt but most days are great. Katy is gone BUT you are not. My advice – live your life NOT the one she left you and in turn you will be a surviver not just a thriver. Good luck. Jaz

  164. Raye

    PB I LOVE your comments. I hope you continue to stick around awhile.

    WWG again I will not apologize for my skepticism. It is fully justified. Your choice not to be out in everything you do is your choice. As you stated, I don’t have that choice. I am who I am and I make no apologies or attempts to hide it. For awhile in my life I did hide who I was and a good man got hurt because of it. I learned from that and did not do the same thing to a woman. Everyone deserves a learning curve when coming out but they do not deserve to bring someone else into it. And yeah you can try to say that it is the other person’s choice to become involved but let’s be real here, enticing a person to do something that will not be good for them is on you not them. They may be gullible enough or weak enough to fall for it but it is still on you because you are the one dragging some unsuspecting victim into your messed up confusion.

    KNOW FOR SURE what you want Heart Broken and then go for it. You can call yourself a victim for being “judged” if you like or you can choose to take the candid honesty and figure out the reasons for the advice and pitfalls to avoid. I know for a fact that I never felt for a man what I feel with women. But then I am a lesbian. I always knew that but I hid for family reasons. You might just be realizing that all your feelings over the years were real. Honestly I don’t know and don’t care. I am just glad its not me in your next girlfriend’s shoes. I have been there too many times, I did everything right and lost out to the guy and the white picket fences of society’s acceptance.

  165. Jazmenha

    If I may add Raye (hope ok to do so) I think Raye is just saying that HB entered into this as a willing mutual participant, things didn’t work out…but that the lesbian way of life is that a “way of life” not something to (as R read it) just turn on and off – and for a butch who is constantly judged in society this reading of this hits an understandable pissed off pet peeve. I could be way off base just wearing my peacemaker hat but it could be too tight cutting off circulation to my brain. 😉

  166. Heart broken

    Raye – I do think what you have to say is harsh and a bit judgemental… That being said I do take what I can from it, am learning about this life choice and taking time to gain knowledge and perspectives around this life choice.

    I am taking a break from dating, for at least 2 months so I can make heads and tails out of all of this. Besides I already own my house and there is no white picket fence outside! Just a ton of snow here in Alaska.

    Thanks for all the input and advice, even from you Raye (said with a smile). Now to figure out if I’m just a girl or a femme in training.

  167. Raye

    Jaz you are close. And yeah I don’t mind you trying to see where I am coming from. In fact I appreciate it rather than you just throwing the “judgemental” word at me. As Rexie said, using your own judgement in a situation when you need to know what you are getting into is not a bad thing. My anger comes from hearing the same things from straight/bi girls over and over again and nothing ever changes. I have lost count the number of times I have been duped by a straight girl claiming to be bi that I courted and treated like a queen. In the middle of it I dealt with the push me pull you bullshit of her trying to handle being called a lesbian. I would watch them lie to their kids about me. Jump up from kissing me when the kids would enter the room as if we were teenagers busted by our parents. Then I would learn about the old high school boyfriend she just got back in touch with and went on a date with to see how she felt about men. Then she would come crawling back when he was boring in bed or made her sick to her stomach to be touched by him. She would beg forgiveness and tell me she loved me and I was perfect for her. Then she would ignore my calls for a couple of weeks and next time at the straight bar we all hung out at, she would be there with another guy. Then she would get drunk and tell me that he digs her liking lesbians even butch ones and try to kiss me and I would dump her ass. All of these stories are not the same woman but all the same fucking story. The bottom line is, we are not toys for your amusement nor are we experiments for your personal study of your own sexuality. We are people with hearts and every girl that pulls this shit fucks us up just a little bit more for that loving beautiful femme that is dying for us to trust them. I am sick and fucking tired of people telling me not to be judgmental. Not using my better judgment landed me in this very jaded spot when it comes to bisexuals. Heart broken I hope you aren’t one of those women. But all your concerns about society and your uncertainty about whether you want men or women leads me to believe you are. You are spewing the same lines and I think my girlfriend put it best: You aren’t afraid of what society thinks as a whole, you are concerned that the men you are still attracted to will not be attracted to you when they find out you are a big ol lezzie. And that my dear is the fucking truth.

  168. WWG

    Raye, I understand your response a lot better, and can chime in with my own experiences. I definitely had straight/bi-curious friends find out I wasn’t straight and then try to sleep with me to experiment. As if because I liked women I liked *all* women. They’d be miffed when I wasn’t interested in them/in sleeping with them. Yeah, I could sometimes get the girl that my guy friends wanted (they’d challenge me to see who could when we were younger) but you end up feeling used and like a whore and it sucks. So I get you now.

    Heart broken, I’m going to throw in my own pet peeve, not necessarily aimed at you but caused by what you said. This isn’t a “lifestyle”. A lifestyle is a housewife, a rockstar, etc. Heterosexuality isn’t a lifestyle so I never understOod why people label being gay as such. I can choose to be a housewife or rockstar (um, well if I could sing) but I don’t choose to be gay. It’s the heart of me. It is central to my being as much as my being right handed.

    Go read some queer sites and books. At the very least it wl help you understand what its like being gay. Even if you never date a woman again, do that so you can be a proper advocate for the community you were breifly part of.

    Ps. Typing on blackberry. Excuse all typos pls.

  169. Heart broken

    WWG – Doing just that now and taking a 2-3 month break from dating anyone and being celebate. This will allow tiem to mend the broken heart and figure some of this out before getting anyone else involved.

  170. PB

    Raye: Sorry for all the crap you have had to deal with, it’s not right, it’s not fair, and sadly, too familiar a story. Hugs.

    A few decades ago, when I was a young thing, I was chased and caught by a young woman (we were both young then) who, for a variety of reasons, was trying out a “lesbian lifestyle” on me. Unfortunately, I thought it was simply a life with, not a lifestyle on. I broke up with her, once I realized she was unable to commit to anything that was important to me; however, as I have with all exes, we remained amicable. She subsequently went back and forth with men and women, she tried femmes (me, and of course it didn’t work for at least two reasons), and then men, and then gayish men, bi men, and butches, men, butches, etc. She is now happily straight married to a straight man and has a teenager.

    When I advise Heartbroken to date men or bi women, I am not trying to kick her out of the club, I just think it’s also okay to be straight/ bi and in a different, much bigger, more powerful club – it’s never been my thing, but be who you are, love who you are. However, finding out who you are should not be at the expense of the vulnerable hearts of those whom you still have shame in loving. And if you find yourself in that repeat pattern, then, regardless of your intent to “find true love”, the honest impact of that behavior is, in my view, selfish, and irresponsible, even when done in the name of “love”, even when done by well-meaning people.

  171. Jazmenha

    PB Well written. I especially agree with this part u wrote- “love who you are. However, finding out who you are should not be at the expense of the vulnerable hearts of those whom you still have shame in loving. And if you find yourself in that repeat pattern, then, regardless of your intent to “find true love”, the honest impact of that behavior is, in my view, selfish, and irresponsible, even when done in the name of “love”, even when done by well-meaning people.” Welcome to CCL- I think your a new commenter (I’m hooked here 2 yrs) Sasha is the best blogger ever!

  172. Sarah M. usual. i might be a little late here. and a little long winded…

    heartbroken, it’s quite simple. i’ll try not to get too graphic. but, it’s helpful, i promise.
    take a hot shower, shave (like you would as a woman expecting to get laid or make love) and put on some lotion. make yourself feel really sexy. put on some naughty sleepwear if you want to. turn on some tunes, light some friggin’ candles…and let your mind go. friggin’ play with yourself. where does your fantasy take you. do you have a man with a penis taking over your body? or do you have a woman that’s making you cum on your fingers or toy. when you close your eyes…who’s your prince or princess charming? try it a few times if you want to. if it’s a girl one night and a guy the next be it. you might just be a bisexual. your sexual fantasies tap into your inner sexual desires. who you’d really be attracted to for the long haul. i’ll say it…look at some porn. if you find hetero porn and your wishing that dude was a hot butch with a strappy and that gets your juices going. woohoo! ya just might be a dyke! if you get off to this with the guy, as a guy, fucking you like a guy…sounds a little hetero to me. ya get off both ways…quess what? you’re bi. who cares? just take the time out to figure it out! without anyone getting played with or hurt.

    when i was younger my fantasy characters didn’t really have a gender at all. i thought something was off with me. i would get off to these imaginary touches and indistinguishable voices. but, i never knew if they were male or female. i met my first girlfriend, who was the first lesbian i ever met. first girl to tell me she liked me. after being introduced to a lesbian, having the ability to touch another girl, discovering the complexities of gender identity. my fantasies got a little clearer…lol. and yes porn magazines. ya know the ads..chicks with dicks and there’d be some dominatrix wearing a strap-on. those were the days lol! look at some coochies…do they turn you on?

    i don’t mean to be so damn sexual. but, i think it’s an important factor to consider when you’re trying to determine your SEXUAL orientation. anyone can have a relationship with another person. but, can you fuck them? do you WANT to fuck them? and do you want it on a regular basis? there are stories of people who have relationships without sex. i don’t think that applies to everyone, though.

    there are plenty of us lesbians out there who have had relationships with men. married men, birthed babies while in a committed relationship with men. so, while i agree with the whole long haul relationship hoopla…i have to ask about sex. LOL. the two sort of go hand in hand. pun intended 😉

  173. Sarah M.

    ugh! might as well have written a blog on this subject lol

  174. Heart broken

    Sarah M. – I like your get to the point style wrapped in straight forward useful techniques!!! I absolutely enjoyed sex with “Katy” and wanted it on a very regular basis. During the next couple of months of not dating or having sex I will put your advice in action. I know that most of my fantacies when alone are with women. If I want to add a little porn to it I go to the lesbian porn, not hetro porn… I know I have kind of taken over this blog post with my issues, sorry if it’s bad edicate. I appreciate all of the varios perspectives, opinions, insights and advice, even from you Raye! Off to Portland.

  175. Sarah M.

    lol i hope it is helpful. just a little experiment without causing any harm. sex isn’t so black and white for everybody. some people can know what they are after they learn their first words. others not so much. and some just never had a clue what they were missing. i’m mostly blaming society on that one too. growing up i had no clue that my first was my first crush!! i didn’t realize i was a lesbian until after i met my first girlfriend.

    we never get over our first. i often wonder if it has more to do with our confusion over our sexuality than love. confusion, in your situation and others like yours, i mean.

    i only suggest the hetero porn because it is more raw and more sex than the lesbian porn i have found in the past. most “lesbian” porn, though created by men in the porno industry. it’s usually with two girly girls having some bimbo slumber party. it caters to the male fantasy of lesbian sex. as for lesbian porn, created by lesbians…well to be honest…it just sucks. LOL! i would venture to say amateurish.

    i always say that when a girl realizes that she may be a lesbian she is breaking into a new skin. it’s a different world. that safety you’re used to getting from the people around you will start to deteriorate a little. it’s a process. a long one. but, it shouldn’t be a reason to hide. we have lost family members, people we thought were our best friends, and jobs over our being a “out” lesbian.

  176. Jazmenha

    Sarah- Damn CCL for “introducing” me to lesbian porn. LOL yes, SO hot (blushing), but yes I agree NOT the girly girly man perve filming action. Gag! I have never and will never seen a hetero porno I’d rather poke my eyes out hehe BUT that is just me/ my opinion.

  177. Elegy

    I accidentally stumbled upon hetero lesbian porn. The Devil Wears Nada (I thought it said Prada, and turned to have it in the BG). Ugh. It was awful. If I hadn’t known any better, I would have decided to never have sex ever, because…. UGH.

  178. Jazmenha

    Elegy LMAO!!! Yes the jury is IN hetero lesbian porn SUCKS but lesbian porno is hot :). (off topic BUT invokes gays so… I am so excited today I set my new male coworker (gay) on a blind date w one of dear guy friends of 13 years (gay male)- too fun! Just had to tell someone. 🙂 )

  179. Jazmenha

    Well ok it doesn’t “suck” completely I mean we ARE referring to naked women and THAT is never bad. 😉 (Again, it’s not MY fault CCL did this to me. LOL) (And belame Sarah lol for bringing up the subject hehe smiles- u know I think you rock Sarah. 🙂 )

  180. Elegy

    No… it totally sucked. I was left turned off and generally bemused.

  181. Jazmenha

    LOL but seriously- I totally understand

  182. Femmelover

    Hey Raye, there you go again with your bullshit comments. I thought you learned from your previous mistakes? I mean, your comments to “Heartbroken” were very uncalled for!!! In reality…YOU just have an opinion! Furthermore, what was really uncalled for is the comment… “Yay you kissed a girl and you told all your friends. Congratulations. None of that matters in the short haul.” We need to embrace all of the “HUMAN-BEINGS” that come feel they could be one of us/in our world – and treat them as such…!!!!! We are all different and that is just fine with me! You don’t know who HB is or how she feels inside. Don’t judge, right? Judgement is too easy for you. 🙂

  183. Femmelover

    …I mean, I think I could understand where you might be coming from if you weren’t so harsh with those that are questioning; that is to say, newbies could potentially be family GIVIN the chance! Or, are you just all about yourself?

  184. Sarah M.

    LOL! i KNEW i was gunna get some shit for saying anything about hetero porn!! if y’all know of any good butch/femme lesbian porn by all means message me to my facebook link Sasha has set up. i like watching a girl get pounded and most lesbian porn i have found doesn’t do that. just sayin’.

    femmelover- raye doesn’t give a crap what you have to say! matter of fact nobody does! you have a huge nasty thing against raye and she shuts you up every time! i’m tired of you finding ways to attack my girlfriend. Heartbroken came in asking for insight and raye gave it to her. to the best of her knowledge that one can give with the experiences she’s been through. that’s NOT bullshit. bi-curious or “newbies” as you call them, NEED to know the effects of their curiosity. sounds to me like you just don’t like people being upfront and to the point! to know raye is to love her. she comes off harsh, but she is in NO way intentionally mean. even heartbroken thanked her for the advice. if she wasn’t bothered by it, she doesn’t need you to defend her.

  185. Raye

    Femmelover stop trolling on newbies.. lol *shakes head*… not even gonna bother.

  186. Colonel Dustem of the Zombie Fighter Alliance

    Zombie insurgent verified. Identification revealed by brainless attack method which employs hypocritical accusations of a human being failing to treat other humans with appropriate regard. That is all.

  187. Jazmenha

    Sarah ” if y’all know of any good butch/femme lesbian porn …”- OMG that’s hot 😉 please do share that. (I’m telling you- look what CCL has done to me! LOL)

  188. Femmelover

    @ Sarah – Tell yur girlfriend to be a bit more non-condesending with her supposedly heartfelt advice to others…get what I am saying? There are ways to help other’s who are not totally sure of their sexuality. Your girl does it in a mean way…that is all I am saying. There are various ways to write and she needs to learn when to dig and when not to.
    @ dumb-ass colonel dustem! What the hell are you? Who are you, some young idiot I am assuming…and, I will leave MY OPINION at that! LMFAO!

  189. Jazmenha

    FL – I’m surprised u didn’t see Colonel’s comment to you on Raye’s recent Butch tips for Femmes. Since you’re Christian thought that “cross and holy water” comment if ref to you would have had you leave reply. Happy holidays!

  190. Jazmenha

    Typo- not “if” I typed “in” ref to you…

  191. Colonel Dustem of the Zombie Fighter Alliance

    From Operational Defense Chapter of the ZFA Manual:
    Section 248; Part B; Paragraph 3.5 (summarized)

    Zombie defense tactics may include attempting to form an opinion, but this is a known distractional ploy and should not be taken seriously. It is a generally accepted fact that it takes a brain to form an opinion. In addition to being undead, it is proven and documented that members of the zombie army have an empty cranial cavity except for a dust-like residue which is believed to be remnant from total cerebral atrophy.


  192. Femmelover

    Jaz…what? I don’t understand what you mean.
    @ dumb-ass zombie colonel…you are one weird motha!

  193. Jazmenha

    “Zombie defense tactics may include attempting to form an opinion, but this is a known distractional ploy and should not be taken seriously.”- Well since everyone has opinions maybe we are all zombies 😉 wearing human costumes.;)
    My advice to everyone- Be yourself- gay, straight, zombie, human, trans-gender, bi or who ever you are and celebrate who you are because no one else is more qualified to be u then u. Have opinions, stand for something, defend those you love, be kind to each other because today is all you have- we are not promised tomorrow. Peace!

  194. Jazmenha

    Femmelover since u take being a Christian very seriously and didn’t defend yourself as a Christian then I figured u didn’t see what Colonel wrote u -” @Femme Lover’s last comment set off the creepster alarm down here at Zombie Fighter HQ and we are issuing red alert. Injecting herself in a conversation between Jaz and Butchboi falls within the established criteria for possible invasion of the undead. Alliance Zombie Fighters are strongly advised to follow command protocol and arm themselves to the teeth with silver crosses, holy water and wooden stakes”

  195. Femmelover

    Jaz – I won’t comment to some idiot who is playing comic book! This person doesn’t deserve anything close to conversation regarding our FATHER IN HEAVEN. The comments are obsurd, Jaz…

  196. Sarah M.

    FL- i find it HILARIOUS that you tell me to tell raye some whiny ass bullshit YOU can’t handle. THAT’S FUNNY!! second of all, i have no more power than anyone else here to tell my girlfriend what to say or do. from what I’VE observed NOBODY else seems to have an issue with how raye says anything. YOU’RE THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS A PROBLEM. it’s like you’re fishing for some crap to load on her. you can’t handle the fact that she gets the attention from the girls you want. there’s some of my harsh, mean words for you. as i said before, Heartbroken wasn’t even hurt by Raye’s comments..HEARTBROKEN THANKED RAYE and everyone else! that’s ALL that matters. the woman came here with some questions and guidance and she got it! bottom line…nobody needs another “buddy” to sugarcoat cow dung and give a pat on the back “it’s ok, dear.” put on your big girl panties and deal with it!

    Jaz- i have looked high and low and even in between. raye has even looked and we can’t seem to find much lesbian (butch/femme) that’s so raw.

    Colonel-LMFAO! you’re an odd one. and i dig it 😀

  197. WWG

    Dear Raye and Femmelover,

    Let’s not play around here. We all know I have the biggest dick in the playground. Bow down you sexy butches! 😉


  198. Jazmenha

    Sarah- “cow dung”- LMAO!!!! Yes we 3 (u,Raye,me) have had no luck finding such films BUT I bet Sasha can! She is wonder-woman. 🙂

  199. Jazmenha
    I found this test to take to see if u are a butch or femme. 😉

  200. WWG

    Hmm I fall under androgyne. In some ways, it’s right on, but in others? WTF did I put down?!?! I mean, me, shy?? My family and friends would find that utterly hilarious.

    You are the best of both worlds, and have absolutely no feeling of being either femme or butch. You see yourself as “you” and that’s all that matters. You dislike labels, surprised yourself by even taking this test, and are now laughing as you identify with this definition!

    You switch roles fluidly without thinking from nurturing/subordinate to providing/leading as the situation demands. You are often a jack or jill of all trades and master of a few, but not all.

    In clothing you go for the practical, not always bothering with the concept of neatness if that interferes with comfort or the time it takes to get dressed. Wrinkles don’t drive you crazy, though you do prefer to keep reasonably up to date in your style, without going to any extreme in it.

    You are shy in many ways, being intimidated by overt aggression as well as complete silence in a conversation. You tend to babble to fill silent space and clam up when confronted.

    Odds are good astrologically that you are a Libra, Pisces, Gemini, or Aquarius.

    You’re willing to try anything once as long as it does not pose a risk to you. You’re also good at doing just about any job, as long as you find a way to get trained for it. Physically, you’re average in fitness, not being overly concerned about being either “curvy” or “chisled”. If you are female and have some endowments, you wear a bra in public but not at home.

    For partners you are comfortable with all types, for you are a peacemaker and changeling at heart, changing yourself to fit the situation and avoid hostility. You aren’t a doormat, though, and do express your opionions.

  201. Jazmenha

    WWG that’s a fun test to take-I found it looking for something else 😉 something for Sarah and Raye of course “not” for me please I don’t expose myself to the exposed heheheeh 😉

  202. Femmelover

    Your full of shit, sarah. None of the women who comment here are belong to anyone. So no, that crap you said about me being jealous of raye-ray is dumb. I am done with this. Gone fishing!

  203. Sarah M.

    LMFAO!! that is all… 😀

  204. Sunshine

    Some serious dick slinging going on here. From an objective perspective, Femmelover, you are the one who started the bs. The HB line of conversation was copacetically concluded and everyone was satisfied. Then for whatever reason, you attacked. It is ironic that you are guilty of the very same thing you accuse Raye of doing, which is treating people inhumanely and with disrespect. The kicker is, you weren’t even involved in the original conversation that took place between others and no one ever said a bad word to you or about you, directly or indirectly. For some reason, you took what Raye said personally and then decided to authorize yourself to police people’s behavior. You should not dictate or preach to people as to how they should treat eachother with kindness and respect while you are acting like that monkey that slings shit from its cage onto the spectators. It’s like you were wrapping the turds with messages of peace and light. It’s like, Bam! a poop bomb lands on my face and after wiping it off, I open the note that was attached to it and it says, “Don’t throw shit at people!” I looked back into a few recent threads and was not surprised to see that you have a habit of ordering people around.

    Of course, this is not intended to be a mean, raging rant against you, but you might want to check yourself.

  205. Femmelover

    WWG you are to funny! LOl! I love how you switched up that test. 🙂

  206. Jazmenha

    WWG- That test has 100 questions. I know I posted the link but my god woman how’d u find time to take it. lol I will do it eventually – started first 20 ?s then needed break. hehe
    To connect to post- suggestion for “straights” take the test maybe you’ll discover another label. 😉

  207. WWG

    @Jazmenha – because I didn’t look down to realize it was 100 questions so I kept going saying “it’s not over yet?!?!” And then, it was finally over. And I’m androgyne?!! I wasn’t expecting that, but then I do have an intense personality so maybe that reads as “butch” to this test. Who knows. I identify more as strong femme or tomboy femme.

  208. Jazmenha

    WWG I took the entire thing too, pressed send and it didn’t go through- AHHHH.Oh well it was fun to take. Happy Holidays!
    SASHA I really hope u are feeling better. We all miss u! Happy holidays- feel better soon!

  209. Kenda

    Jaz – The 5 stages of grief are kind of like coming out, aren’t they?…Denial (am not, am not), anger (WTF?? All that loving I’ve missed out on…), bargaining (maybe this is just a phase), depression (how am I ever going to meet someone?), acceptance (Ahhh).

  210. Jazmenha

    Kenda – Excellent point! Wow what a great connection! Check out my blog because there are 7 stages 🙂 I thought 5 too . Happy holidays! Jaz

  211. Lisa

    Ok, so now I have it all down.

    So in gay and lesbian relationships, no one ever uses anyone as a rebound. No one ever uses anyone for conquest. And no one EVER under any circumstances engages in a thrillfuck, a one night stand, or hooks up because they have a partner who likes to watch. And of course most importantly of all, if someone gets dumped it is ONLY because a person of the past has never gone away, it’s never due to incompatibility.

    Lord knows for me it wasn’t because the first woman defined me later as a booty call, the second woman was a drunk, and the third woman wanted a codependent enabler to replace her old cocaine habit.

    Just wanted to make sure I had it all down in my notes here.

    Listen, really…I don’t care what it looks like from the outside, if they are lying to you under circumstance A like the women who end up scoring a chick for her boyfriend’s amusement, I GUARANTEE she is also lying in Circumstances B, C, and so forth, lying to her boyfriend as well. It has worked for her.

    I also know a LOT of bis and every single one of them have a first choice…they all lean first towards the same sex OR the opposite sex, it’s just that the other option is fine as well.

    Own your own preference and comfort level. Ok, so don’t mess with “straight” women or bi women, not a problem. But not all are liars. If you believe this you are perpetuating sexual misconception and persecution just as what is STILL done to homosexuals and sexual minorities all through history.

  212. Heart broken

    Femmelover – I must say, I think I like you!

  213. Heart broken

    FL – Raye – Sarah M – Not that anyone really cares…. Yes I do think Raye’s comments are to harsh and judgemental… That being said, I can appreciate hearing about what she has been through and the insight/advise it gives. I don’t like the way she “assumes” that I am out to play a game or hurt people, it was a bit assume the worst and well, just assume the worst. I took the positivelearning items from Raye’s comments and left the negativity on the talbe. Someone not as strong could have let the comments scare them into not wanting to deal with or work into the lesbian community. Just food for thought, nothing more nothing less.

  214. Jazmenha

    Heartbroken- Everyone you encounter in your life, every experience you have in your life can make you a stronger person if you choose. Hold on to your magnificent inner strength. Trust me, in this life you’ll need it. Raye and Sarha ARE good people. Different people communicate differently. Femmelover IS also a good person. Everyone has different things they are passionate about and different styles of expressing that. Take care.

  215. Elegy

    Ah, HB, a logical stance! Take that which you can use, leave the rest for someone else.

  216. Elegy

    And Jaz, you are so sweet! You see the good in pretty much everyone, eh? ^_^ And you’re very strong, to not let the world take that from you.

  217. Jazmenha

    Elegy Thanks. (((hug))) Elegy I hope u read my poetry blog my cyber friend. Happy holidays. 🙂 Jaz

  218. Heart broken

    Anyone want an update on the “Katy” situation that made me heart broken? Yes that is a carrot dangeling but… Don’t want to bother peeps with details they may not want…

  219. Elegy

    I’m curious, of course. The blog is pretty slow due to various conditions. :3 But Rexie’s advice on the Late Life Lesbians post is the best, for future reference.

  220. Rexie

    *waves at Elegy*

  221. Elegy

    Haha! *Waves back*

  222. Elegy

    Also, Jaz, I don’t normally read your poetry blog because, with the exception of one or maybe two times, it’s always on invite only.

  223. heart broken

    Actually the update is pretty much on the late life lesbian blog so you can find it there. UGH!!!! All I can say is this time I am not as devistated as I was…. Shame on you the 1st time or 2, now shame on me… I get it!

  224. BeBiBoBum

    I suspect that this is the challenge that “straight” women that fall in love with women face; The gay woman is afraid of getting hurt and wary of the woman who could leave her for another man. It doesn’t help that sometimes, the gay woman started off being the other woman and the relationship is founded on shaky grounds. How could one possibly trust someone who has cheated on a previous partner? I agree that the women in this case should move on and build a relationship based on trust and love with someone else.

    On a side note,
    I’m wondering why some posts on here do quotes when they write “Bi-sexuals” as if they don’t believe them or something… As a bisexual woman, I am extremely saddened by these comments. I have been with mostly men before since gay women don’t necessarily like my type.(My understanding of this is that Lesbians are wary of bisexuals because they are afraid of committing to someone that may leave them for a man.)
    Thing is, a true bisexual doesn’t care about the gender of the person they fall in love with. We are also capable of committing to one person for the rest of our lives and not think about the other gender that we’re “Missing out on” It’s not like that for people like me. I would never want to “pick a side” and tell someone I’m gay or I’m straight because that would be lying about who I am. I’ve decided that no matter how disheartening it is, I am going to wait until I find someone that truly accepts me and trusts me no matter how long it takes.
    I just hope that the stigma attached to being “Bi” goes away soon and people see Bisexuals for who they really are, Human beings that are capable of truly unconditional love as not even your gender matters to them when it comes to loving you.

  225. BeBiBoBum

    Another side note, after reading Raye’s and others’ experiences with Bi-curious women or straight women playing with women’s feelings and hearts, I’m even more disappointed! It seems that there are too many people out there giving Bisexuals a bad name! And these women do not deserve the name bisexual.
    I for one hate women that want to kiss other women to get the attention of men. Not because they don’t have the right to do so, but because they wrongly call themselves bisexual and put themselves in the same category as myself! I need to come up with a better label for myself because I am tired of being hated or feared because of these women. Any suggestions?

    P.S. Even I was a little offended by HB’s original confession that she is still attracted to men, then I realized that she meant that she was ALSO attracted to men(as opposed to my misunderstanding that she was attracted to ONLY men).
    I hope you find your place in life, HB, being bi is a wonderful thing, but society and people around can make it extremely confusing for you. My advice to you is to listen to your heart first. Obviously you enjoy sex with both men and women. So you don’t have to figure out whom you have sexual desires for.
    It is not easy being bi. I’m 29, I have known that I am bi for over 15 years. But it seems that women have a harder time accepting me because they’ve been burnt before by lesser specimens of women that have claimed to be bi. Don’t get disheartened, and don’t worry so much about whether to CHOOSE a man or a woman to date. If you think about it, it really is not a choice. You see someone, you feel attracted to them and if they are attracted to you, then you’ve got a starting point. Just focus on healing and being true to yourself. And don’t be ashamed of who you are!

  226. Gemma

    Wow….looks like I missed ALOT!
    @PB, I totally agree with Raye; please stick around.

    @Sarah M …Whoah. Your first comment made me blush no end!!

    @Elegy, Lol! I don’t think bemused was the reaction the said makers were looking for. 😀

    @Jazmenha and WWG That test was so long!! And then I got a cgi error thing so I can’t see my results after all that. 🙁

    @BeBiBoBum I think the problem some people have with Bisexuals is that they give the impression of sitting on the fence, because they “haven’t chosen one or the other”. This makes them prime candidates to fall on whichever side the wind of society blows strongest; more often than not, the hetero side. And therefore its like adding insult to injury on the side of the lesbian because not only did you sit on the fence when I needed you to be sure about yourself and therefore us but then you went ahead and chose a man to stay on the good side of society.
    I’m not saying that this is the case with all bisexuals…just saying what I’ve seen. It also doesn’t help that curious straight girls and unsure individuals use this label as a way to keep both doors open and then end up hurting someone…. usually the fully gay someone.

  227. Gemma

    @BeBiBoBum Looks like i missed your 2nd reply before I posted…my two cents looks a little redundant now, but hey. 😀
    Also, as you told HB, I will tell you: don’t lose that hope you already have. There are people who do accept you and will love you.:)

  228. Sarah M.

    Gemma- LOL

    Heartbroken- another one bites the dust…

  229. Femmelover

    WTF!!! Uncalled for, S&M!

  230. Raye

    Femmelover give it a rest.

  231. Femmelover

    Tell your girl to give it that!! She keeps perpetuating the entire situation! “another one bites the dust” WTF! That is sooo uncalled for. Just because “YOU” went through bad relationships with bisexsuals doesn’t mean all do, or would! You need to be understanding of those that are different, DUDE! Not everyone want’s to get the hard-core butch bitch-ass shit you throw out!! Some butches have compassion for all…butch,femme, bi, and the questionable!
    So, screw you and your presumed hard-core stance!

  232. Raye

    Femmelover first of all, I will not tell my girlfriend to give it a rest. You are the one whining and bitching all over the place. People have differing opinions and experiences and I am not the only one or there would not be a stereotype. I was not mean to the straight girl. I was honest about how her actions can affect other people if she is not careful and the warning signs I saw in her words heading down that road. I don’t expect everyone to be able to handle the truth. The truth hurts sometimes. But HB dealt with it. It is YOU who can’t seem to get over it. You need to get your big girl panties on and deal with it. Yeah I said panties because you are more of a bitch than butch. Your trolling on every girl here with the slightest femme persuasion is getting beyond nauseating and bordering more on the level of creepy.

  233. Raye

    And WWG my dick is way bigger than yours… *smirk*

  234. Rexie

    Do the Dick Slang!

    That’s what I always say at times like these.

  235. Femmelover

    I am not the one whining and bitching all over the place, dude! Sheet, you two are the one’s that are backing up with your shit! Why doesn’t she address the comment “another one bites the dust” and what she meant by that? Very uncalled for man!
    And, there you go with your stereotype. If there weren’t people like you around we wouldn’t have stereotypes!

    And, what do you exactly mean when you say the “straight girl”…? You don’t know if she is straight, bi, femme or what because “YOU” haven’t given her the chance to figure it out with all your BS getting in the way of it all! Damn, now she has to try and figure out your shitty comments.

    LOL! with the “Your trolling on every girl here with the slightest femme persuasion is getting beyond nauseating and bordering more on the level of creepy.”

    LMAO!! Nobody is trolling here! I don’t do that – and, have never had to do that. Intriguing/smart/intellectual women always happen to come into my life one way or another.

    And another thing, why do you always try to justify your comments as being correct and right? Just because you blog doesn’t make you righteous and correct!

    People, listen up! Please remember, these are just opinions…mine your’s/everybody’s too. Sometimes we need to form our own. Just saying…this big dummy want’s you to think her way and that way only…don’t buy it at all…we are not all like her…

  236. Rexie

    Just in case you need a visual on the Dick Slang:

    There’s a femme version, too:

  237. Femmelover

    WWG – I think mine is bigger…lady? 🙂 100 Point Test scores? :0

  238. Raye

    LOL yeah I know… no one relates to anything I am saying which is why you blog here right? Oh wait… you don’t. Everyone knows my blogs are my opinions but I seem to recall you blubbering in comments on one of MY blogs (with your desperation palpable)something about agreeing with my statements about how femmes could better approach us. Oh but you wouldn’t go so far as to agree with me of course because you just can’t stand that which is why you come on here trying to start a fight about everything I say. Yes yes femmelover you are just soooooo chivalrous you must protect the poor little femmes from big bad mean butch daddy Raye. I really don’t think they are all that scared of me. You can crawl back under your rock now. I’m bored with you.

  239. Femmelover

    Yeah, sometimes I think you get it right, but then you put your small foot in your mouth and “f” it all up! And, yep when I spoke about the comments you made about how femmes could better approach butches I was feeling good about that comment because it was heartfelt and right on but…your comments at this point and regarding this topic have turned outrageous now! Why couldn’t you stick to a heartfelt – give a little criticism along with a lot of good positive advice for a sexuality you hate due to your own past experiences?
    Ohhhh, no…it’s not controversial enough, right?

  240. Jazmenha

    “An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.”- M. Ghandi

  241. AlaskaFemme (formerly HB ; )

    Her love like liquid cocaine courses through my veins. Minutes after injection my body lights up from within feeling…. Just feeling intense and raw, pure and unabashed. Back arched, my legs open, skin tingling with excitement. Heart pounding, life runs through me or so I think…..

    Stinging from the heavy slap – it wears off, dropped with the reality of unwant, thick in despair I crack from within. Tears flow, emptiness prevails and swallows me in the darkness of my own mind. Why…. Why….. When bad is so bad and so often…. How is my mind this warped, so broken to crave something that mascaras my heart so often; PLEASE – release me from this drug, take the memory of it’s splendor away, bleed it from me now and leave me only with the knowledge of pain pushing me to not want, not crave…Her…. Liquid salt soaks my face, running – just running

    (Over taken with emotion, I wrote this just now and well thought I would share it…. I’m better now that I wrote it, funny how that goes at times. Going to bed, tomorow is a new day! 🙂

  242. Raye

    Alaska aka HB… I like it. And normally I despise drippy love poetry. Congratulations, you are one step closer to being a full on lesbian. Have you called her and hung up a few times yet? But you’re still an attention-whore. Cheers.

    (This is known as tongue-in-cheek i.e. I’m kidding. Seriously if I get one panties-in-a-bunch comment from some bleeding heart PC lesbo on here I will just laugh at you so don’t bother.)

  243. AlaskaFemme (formerly HB ; )

    Raye – Glad I got your thumbs up! As for the attention whore, well, it’s slightly possible but in a good way. haha Only hanging up I have done is when on the phone and she becomes a complere jerk.

  244. Kenda

    Aren’t we all, to some degree, attention whores?

  245. Elegy

    On the contrary, very few of us are savvy enough to charge for it. ^.~

  246. Arin

    Wow.. I am married to a man for 17 years.. Always knew I was a lesbian but due to “good catholic girls get married an have lots of babies” I chose to push aside those feeling and breaking up with my college girlfriend and married the next guy I dated.. I have had girlfriends off and on. I finally meet a girl that I went out in public somewhere other than the gay bar with feel in love with her. When I had decided to leave my husband she breaks up then calls my husband and tells him details of affair then blocks me from Facebook and her cell. My husband not wanting to be left for a women has begged me to work things out.. I so want to confront her and possibly kick her ass.. Now I don’t know what to do. I crave the affection from a girl..

  247. Jazmenha

    Arin Wow I’m so sorry you went through that! That was a very messed up thing for her to do!!! WTF!!! Now…I do not by any means condone cheating on your husband, but what she did was messed up! I am sorry u are in such pain. Best wishes.

  248. WWG

    Lol @ Elegy! So true!

  249. Mojo

    I came here searching for answers. I have just fallen in love with my fourth married woman in twenty five years. this one much more complicated than the last three and none of whom stayed with me. she is an elected official, republican, with a small child still at home. I am from the midwest where, butch, femme, bi, bent or straight does not appear to be a important as it is to you. I came here hoping for dialogue to assist me with my sheer terror and total exhilaration as I weigh my options. but is that possible without the verbal war and bitter aggressiveness?

  250. Jazmenha

    Mojo- “I am from the midwest where, butch, femme, bi, bent or straight does not appear to be a important as it is to you.”- please clarify- I assume you are butch in love with a married femme correct? “…as important…” meaning ?? Please clarify-do you mean less judgement towards lesbians there- Midwest??don’t think that’s what you mean. Not sure. Also please clarify ” I came here hoping for dialogue to assist me with my sheer terror and total exhilaration as I weigh my options. but is that possible without the verbal war and bitter aggressiveness?” Do you mean how to deal with this situation to avoid conflict (“verbal war…”) with your love or with her husband or with people on CCL? Also you mentioned “sheer terror”-?? of what- her leaving you, her marriage breaking, your heart breaking?? Please clarify. “Options”- well unfortunately since she is married there are only 3 either she leaves him for you, she leaves you for him or things continue secretly as they are. Personally I have never been in this situation so can’t give personal examples. However I have read many married women on this CCL site that have cheated or are cheating on their husbands with lesbians. Personally I would not cheat on anyone ever, however this is your life not mine and I was not put on this earth to judge I was put here to listen and support people completely even if I do not agree with their actions. Please clarify those points. I sincerely hope you will receive the advice and support you are searching for on CCL.

  251. AlaskaFemme (formerly HB ; )

    Mojo – I was married and met a woman that I fell for. Now my marriage was one I should have gotten out of about a year or so prior. I simply was hoping things would turn around knowing in my gut that they wouldn’t. So I met Katy, had an intense connection, hung out with her for about 2 weeks and I knew I had to end my marriage. I was not ok cheating and I knew if I was able to have this kind of connection with anyone, male or female I needed to end things with the husband for both of our sakes. I ended it quicker than Katy ever expected. I think it made her happy as well as scared… 6 months later she ended up being the unstable one going back and forth between me and her X a bit. I, never went back to my Xhusband. Some of us don’t. I only say this to let you know that the married woman can leave and want to be with the lesbian. It happened to me, I left, I fell for her and we would be together now if she was a more stable person. The End.

  252. Umbrian

    When I was a little girl, I was just like any other little girl. I dreamed of my wedding day and having a baby. I had crushes on little boys and sometimes little boys would ask me to marry them. I’d turn them down of course, and say “someday”.
    I hit puberty and to my surprise, I wasn’t attracted to boys anymore. My adolescent school girl crushes were on girls. I never acted on any of these, I would not have known what to do anyway. As I got older, 16 or 17 or so, and with the unrelenting crushes on girls still happpening, I thought I would prove to myself that I really did like guys. So, I started dating guys. I started experimenting with sex. Nothing worked for me. The guys were still asking me to marry them. One even bought me a diamond engagement ring and cried when I would not accept it. And when I would break up with them, after just a couple of months of dating, they would cry, and I felt nothing but freedom. And so it went until I was 19 or 20. I realized that I didn’t like guys after all. The crushes on girls never stopped, I had only chose to ignore them.
    I finally went to a gay woman’s bar, (that ironically one of my boyfriends had told me about). I found myself there. I made lots of friends there. It marked the beginning of my gay life. I found my first girlfriend there.
    I had been through two long term relationships by the time I was 38 years old. I had been single for five years. That was when I met my “soulmate”. A woman 10 years younger than me. An unlikely love, since physically she was not my type. She pursued me though and we ended up dating, albeit reluctantly on my part. In time, I realized that there was something special about her. She did things I had never done, like mountain biking, motorcycles, and artistic painting. In fact she was a well known artist in our community. She was talented, and smart, and interesting. She gave speeches and spoke to crowds. She seemed fearless and unstoppable. In the months that followed, I fell deeply in love with her, and, it appeared, her with me. I wrote her poems and sent her romantic cards. When we made love, it was truly, a spiritual experience. I’ve never experienced THAT before. I’d never in my whole life felt this before. I think I was in love, real love, for the first time in my life. The whole experience of knowing her was a mind blowing treat and surprise. I had lived long enough to know that this “love” experience was a once in a lifetime thing that was never going to happen to me again. Or, to her. Never ever again. Not in this lifetime. I wanted a whole life with her.
    Her parents were not too keen on our relationship, given that I was an “older” woman. And, unbeknownst to me, she and her parents were making secret plans for her to get an art degree in another city, far from where I lived. After being in love for over a year and a half, she announced she was leaving for 3 years. I was stunned to say the least. I asked her to reconsider. She would not. I asked her not to go. She said it was the chance of a lifetime, her parents were financing this and she wanted it. I felt betrayed. I ended our relationship immediately and a full 6 months before she was to leave town. Never being one to be in it for the sake of sex, I had to let this go. She wanted to keep up our relationship up until it was time for her to leave. I could not do that, knowing she would be leaving. Don’t you usually want to get closer to the one you love instead of further away? I was too old to have a long distance affair. Besides, you know what they say about those. And, anyway, she had bluntly said that we would not be able to see each other at all for 3 years because she would be way too busy. I know now, of course, that we were at different stages in life. This is something she had to do.
    I sought counseling for myself. The grief was almost unbearable. But, within a couple of months, and with each passing day, I began to feel better and better.
    Three months before she was to leave town to pursue her art degree, I met a woman who was introduced to me at a party. Physically she was my type. We hit it off, and began dating. Things have worked out well with this new love of mine. We have been together now for 18 years. She has healed my heart, we have grown together, we’ve had many “firsts” together, such as buying a house and running our own business. We have a full life, with lots of friends and family.
    It took me over 10 years to get completely over my “soulmate”. For a long time I felt it was so unfair to my new love. I have never written her a poem or expressed undying love for her the way I did with my “soulmate”. Doing so would make me vulnerable again. I don’t ever want to feel that again.
    These days, even 18 years later, I can’t help but wonder about my “soulmate” sometimes. I’d like to think that she wonders about me. Or wishes she could at least have that kind of love again even with someone else. I know she will never find that again. I also know that I won’t either. That was a once in a lifetime thing, for both of us. I recognized it. Unfortunately for me, she didn’t.

  253. Sarah

    I’m with a married woman now. We’ve been “together” for almost a year and a half. I’m more in love with her than I have been with anyone. I know she is the one, my souls recognition of its counterpart in another, and I would do anything for her to leave her husband. And I would count myself lucky if she did, and I would never leave her after she did! She has a son and I adore him, and that’s the reason that she still with her husband today. She hates to break up the family, and she wants another child, and wants that child to have the same dad as the one she already has does. It’s hard making this work but I know that I love her more than anything, and if I want to have her then I will do it this way if I have to.

  254. caroline

    I just want to say that i hear you all

    Okay im a lesbian and its not the fact that we are “scared of straight women”
    Its that we dont want to get hurt okay? Straight women. After they go through a break up with a man
    They turn to women and you know we know what they just went through so we comfort them and they, think awww i mite have feelings, then we sleep together and the next moring she does not want anything to do with you..
    And it hurts ..and it happens over and over again tell we put up a wall
    Straight women think they can use we are just there for them. But we have feelings too. Soo i mean its not like that for every straight women but most..
    And you know listen im young really young but hey love is love

  255. Insomniac

    I finally told a woman, who is married to a man, I’m attracted to her. I asked if I could kiss her, and she said it wouldn’t be a good idea. She said she was flattered. Then she made sure to tell me that she experimented once. She keeps telling me how flattered she is and that she has fantasized about women. I think she’s in to me, so I wonder if the obstacle is her marriage. She told me her husband is really messed up right now.

    Anybody have any ideas?

  256. Capecodkid

    “I just hope that the stigma attached to being “Bi” goes away soon and people see Bisexuals for who they really are, Human beings that are capable of truly unconditional love as not even your gender matters to them when it comes to loving you.”
    I want to thank BeBiBoBum for helping us see the big picture. Especially about not throwing out the baby with the bathwater, that is, not all bisexual people will hurt us. That’s what we’re talking about, isn’t it?
    I feel that gay, straight, bi, trans, butch, femme are all labels. I know we feel we need to identify with some groups to feel a sense of belonging. But the minute we label ourselves, or someone else, we suddenly limit ourselves, and our potential, to be whole human beings. Sexuality is on a continuum, throughout life. Very few people, you’ll find, are all one way or the other from birth until death.
    We’ve all experimented sexually, with drugs, with careers, with faith groups, that’s our nature as human beings. We’re curious, aren’t we? There’s nothing wrong with that.
    You’re right, you’re attracted to whom you’re attracted to. We don’t always get attracted consciously. It just happens.
    No one wants to get hurt, but life is risk. It’s much more risky to drive your car to work every day, then to risk telling your current crush your feelings. What are we all so afraid of?
    We get hurt, we pick ourselves up, and dust ourselves off. Nothing cures a broken heart faster than getting out and meeting someone new, and falling in love all over again.
    I know it’s hard, but loving is worth the risk. I’ve loved some married women, back in the day, when I was younger. And they loved on me, don’t worry. I was living a bisexual lifestyle during my 20s and teens. I had boyfriends, but when I turned 30, I went back to women and never called myself “bi” and I would not identify myself that way, I’m exclusively lesbian, and during my boyfriend phase I never stopped being a lesbian. But I can’t judge someone who is bi, or straight.
    Hell, some of my best friends are straight!! hahaha
    Right I am seriously crushing on a woman who’s been (male husband)widowed for 10 years. I’m this close to telling her my feelings. It may be scarier for her than it is for me, she has more to lose.
    She walked into my life when I wasn’t looking for anyone. I am single, available, and so is she.
    I’ve been in some traumatic grief the past few months, and she’s been there for me, in some big ways. She cares. Am I going to ask her if she’s gay, straight or bi? No. I only hope she doesn’t tell me she wants to be celibate the rest of her life.
    I’m pretty sure she knows I’m a lesbian, b/c I’m a soft butch, and I’ve pursued her somewhat, but not until after she has been in my space, with her body language and eye contact, that I didnt even take seriously for many months.
    I don’t plan on walking away for any reason, having to do with who’s at what point in her sexuality, or what other people might think.
    The chemistry and potential is there. She is gorgeous, and femme, and has a stunning, compassionate personality.
    No, I don’t want any regrets because I didn’t say something. Life is too short. You can’t always fit people through a filter before you fall in love. Just enjoy the connection, and see where it leads.
    And honor people’s choices, esp. if you say you love them.
    Be the kind of partner you would want to have for yourself. I’m preparing myself to welcome another human being into my life, warts and all, so I’m growing, and keeping my feet on the path, no matter what. To quote Sade: “It’s only love that gets us through.”

  257. Capecodkid

    Dear Insomniac:

    I think you could be putting yourself in some danger if you get involved with a woman, whose husband is “messed up right now.”
    Many people are injured or killed during a jealous rage in a love triangle. I know this might be hard, but even if she were to break up with her husband, or separate, he could still go postal on you, while you’re at work or something. Not trying to scare you, but, I used to work in domestic violence prevention/treatment occupation, and I’m trying to be geniune and honest with you; I do feel concerned something could happen, to you, or to her, and you wouldn’t feel good if you saw her with a black eye. So, do be careful. You may think it’s exciting and the risk is worth it, but nothing is worth getting pounded on, or shot at. OK. Take care.

  258. anonymous

    why are so many women falling madly in love with one another today?

  259. Jazmenha

    @anonymous LOL Because you are on a lesbian website! When I met my very hot butch there was a connection I’d NEVER felt with a man. It is brand new but feels like we have always known each other. We totally get eachother. NEVER felt that w a guy! And woman are HOT! OMG now I miss her SOOOOO much. She lives out of state 🙁 thanks for reminding me how crazy I am about her.

  260. Nae

    Im stuck in a terrible place. My gemini female co worker is byoootiful…every time i c her im jolted by her striking eyes. She has flirted wirh me dangerously and ive come close to grabbing her and kissing her until her knees collapse. Problem is im butch and when i brought up our flirting she tells me she is a hetersexual woman who is engaged. One minute she is looking at me with love and adoration and the next she is claiming to be straight and not interested. Her personalities split often and leave me frustrated. Do i believe that because sge is a gemini one part of her loves me while another doesnt or just believe her when she tells me she is straight. Help me figure this out please….im really confused.

  261. Anonymous

    To Jazmenha, as long as you have your Girlfriend and a Dildo, you will do just fine.

  262. anonymous

    I have a prob and need help. Im a 20year old butch lesbian and i have been having very strong feelings for the last few months for a single mum who is 30year old. I know she is single but not actually sure if she is at all gay. I have known her for 3years but only get to see her every tuesday and sometimes on group advents. We do get on great and we joke with each other all the time and when we look at each other we lock eyes and hold it for more than usuall. I really want to let her know how i feel about her shes the most attractive woman i have meet. I just dont know how to tell her how i feel. Please any advice would be great as am desprete to be with her x

  263. Mamie A. Stein

    Absolute motivating advice you have said, thank you for publishing.

  264. Anon

    This article it terrible, it makes it sound as though gay women are predatory towards straight married women, i find it offensive and insulting. I am sure there are gay woman that are predators but there are also infact married women that are predatory towards gay women too.

    I have just had my heart broken by a married woman with three children who stalked me for over a year, would not leave me alone when i said that i would not have an affair. Kept giving me the attention i so craved from my own relationship, had all the talk about how husband wasnt nice to her and that she was only still with him for the kids, how there was no love or intimacy in their marriage. Kept telling me that she was in love with me and wanted me, playing real games with my mind.

    Then when things did happen between us and i fell completely in love with her she tells me that she loves her husband and that she would never leave because of the kids. But she can’t just leave it at that, i break contact but after a few days she starts texting, kisses, hearts, flowers etc to draw me back in, she still insists that she is in love with me and then says its sad that we can’t be together, i mean WTF! These mind games have gone on for months.

    I have broken contact now but its very hard, i feel like my heart has been destroyed, im struggling to get her out of my head, im comstantly crying and it has made me quite unwell, i feel used, like i was some sad twisted experiment, like i was just her pick up tonic for when she and hubby had a fight or something.

    Straight married women are predators too!

  265. Wow

    So what else is new.

  266. Anonymous

    So what the hell else is knew.

  267. Tenny

    Well here is my present situation: about 3 months ago myself and a few high school friends decided to reunite after over 30 years to a bar for cocktails sort of like a mini-reunion. Included in the group of about 7 of us is a woman who back in high school I had a huge crush on for the entire years of high school (1980-1983). But of course this was back then and being a lesbian, I pretty much kept it to myself. At the reunion and after 34 years, I was taken back at how beautiful she was. We were both now 50 and she was gorgeous. We immediatley hit it off, but I didn’t think anything of it. She was divorced twice, and I was in a committed lesbian relationship. We hung out with classmates a few more times, but as we were saying goodnight in the parking lot at about 2 in the morning, she says “you are going to hate me for this” she puts her arms around me and kisses me. I of course was shocked, stunned, my jaw dropped and I was motionless. She pulls away, begins to walk back to her car, stops and returns and lays another one on me. I kinda pulled away and she without saying a word turns, walks to her car gets in and drives away. After that night a week later we talk because I am curious why she kissed me. Imean I liked her so much in high school and I though she was straight. She confesses that she wanted to kiss me as soon as she saw me. Somehow she feels she is drawn to me and wants to be around me. As you can imagine I am at a lost for words. I tell her that I too really like her but that I have a girlfriend. We meet a few times and we have a major make out session. She tells me she doesn’t want to come between my girl and I and that wants to see how things develop. I am not in that position to see if things develop because I have a girlfriend who I live with… Anyway, fast forward 3 months.. I have broken up with my girlfriend who by the way is 18 years younger than me. (and honestly I knew all along that we werent going anywhere) My high school crush is away in China with her job and will return in a few days.
    I am completely torn but this is my high school crush and I am stunned that she is back in my life and likes me. I have fallen for her and am afraid that I will get hurt. Ugghhhh!!! I mean I am already marrying this woman. Crazy right!!!!

  268. death Rising

    it does not surprise me.
    women live your life happily.
    i know whats underneath.

  269. Starry Eyed

    I stumbled across this page whilst searching for something else, I had a quick glance through some of the comments and have have decided against my first instinct to comment..

    It all began through meeting a woman at a mutual friends house. We were introduced and as per usual when meeting someone new for the first time. That was all peachy.. I didn’t even give her a second thought. I appreciated the fact that she was a good looking woman. Later that night a lot of drinks were had and we got chatting. She then became very touchy feely and I just assumed as I did not know her very well that this was just part of her personality. We had a long chat about her life and mine. She was happily married with kids. The night ended, but the hangover didn’t.
    A couple of weeks after the mutual friend and I were invited to a party in another mutual friends home where the said married woman would also be attending. Again she was quiet refined until she had a couple of drinks. This time took things a slight bit further.
    To cut a long story short the drunken shenanigans started to come a lot more and close between, until the moment came when we shared a cheeky kiss. Both mutual friends were stunned, as was I and the married woman. We put it down to getting carried away.
    Again things developed more as nights out went on and contact was established between the two of us. It then took an angry husband who found out about us to put a stop to our ridiculous carry on.
    Several times she has tried to completely cut contact with me but keeps coming back to me. I have tried to stay away from her but she is like a drug, where I need to have her in my life, be it a quick text, just to have my fix. The situation was not ideal although I was going through a phase were I did NOT want any commitment and knew she could never ask me for it as she was married. Which suited me down to the ground.
    Now things have changed slightly, I have come to terms with my addiction to her and have established the huge difference between feelings and lust as much as I hate saying it. I’ve never been willing to give up anything for anyone else but this woman is different. The fact that I would eve call her a woman and not a girl says it all to me. She has told me the marriage has been shut down, and I have no intentions of running from her. I’d be crazy to do so. Id never find another like her who would put up with me lol.
    Now don’t get me wrong I do not condone cheating and have never done so myself, although I will admit I did walk around the place like a king for the first month due to having been able to taste the forbidden fruit of a married woman.
    Things change and so have I. I’ve grown up a lot due this situation. I wouldn’t go as far as saying “I love her” because I think love is a figment of the imagination, but my god I would do anything for her. And if she oredered me away in the morning to resume her married life, because it would make her happy I would be more then willing to do so. Now most of you may think that I am letting her walk all over me. This is not the case i literally just wish for her to be happy, be it me or someone else who can make this happen for her.
    Just a last piece, I’m not proud of what I have done, and would not urge anyone else to go to these measures but your judgement of lesbians and their fear to commit is awesomely stereotypical.
    If you judge others, it opens yourself to be judged by others.. We are not all bad.

  270. Wendy Chad

    I am 26 year old lesbian, i was in a relationship with my girlfriend right from high school, indeed i never regretted each moment i spend with her and it came a time she wanted to end the relationship and move on with this new guy she met, i felt so confused, i love her so much and had to plead with her to come back to me but all effort to get her back did not work out. I wanted her back at all cost and had to seek for the help of a spell caster but the first one i met did not work,i wasted so much time believing him and at the end nothing work but yet i did no give up as i had to try another one whose name is Priest Ajigar and he was the one that finally brought her back to me in just 4 days after the spell was done, i am a very happy person today as i love lesbianism life and i never could live without her. I would advice if you need a powerful spell caster either to get your boyfriend or girlfriend back, get your husband back, get a new partner? You don’t have to look further for other spell casters, explain your problem by sending email to priest Ajigar (priestajigarspells @ live . com)

  271. Anonymous

    I have to say that not all gay women are taking advantage of straight married woman. Now i’m not saying it doesn’t happen because obviously it does but i’ve been in a similar situation to this. It was a difficult situation that just got out of hand and we never cheated. We both had strong feelings of course and the problem was that she was just indecisive about what she wanted and that ended up hurting me more than anything. Why should i wait around for someone who wasn’t sure if they even wanted to be with me, so eventually i just ignored her. Now i know we both still have feelings but realistically she’s better off with her husband than with me and i’m better off as well. So i cant speak for all lgbt woman who have been in a similar situation but it hurts us just as much to fall for an unavailable women who can’t make up her damn mind. So i can understand why they would be unsure and scared to be with this married woman, because if she did leave and you both got together. Whats to stop her from leaving you if she left her husband, once she realized your not all that she thought you would be. So it goes both ways. Just my two cents.

  272. Neely

    Another straight woman here, really glad to have found this site, you ladies and this post. I’ve been reading for hours! Lol 🙂

    I have been in various mediocre to crappy relationships with guys my whole life. Married for a year and a half, never really nuts about anyone but always appreciate southern gentleman types. I have really been getting in touch with what ‘I’ want lately and it led me to doing more socially but dropping off of the dating scene. Just not motivated enough by any of the good/great guys I meet. So very happy and fulfilled single life 🙂

    I’ve always said that I’m just not into ‘penis’ and so I have less and less that works for me in a relationship with guys. I’ve found the men I’ve dated to be insincere and since they seem mostly sex driven it has always caused problems for me in relationships because that’s never motivated me and we’ve both ended up unhappy. Me not wanting sex at all, and them frustrated. The truth is I like sex, it’s just always better for me without male organs involved and so-so to not good once they are lol.

    Anyway I’ve been hanging out with this one lesbian girl who has been a complete distraction to me since I met her about three weeks ago. We talk for hours and hours, and did that until past midnight the first day we met. I see her almost every day (we make plans to do stuff together) and I so missed hanging out with her when I went out of town recently that I came back early just so we could spend time together (didn’t tell her that was why!). I think about little things she does, her smile and her expressions etc but I have never had thoughts or feelings like this for a woman in my life. She is single and looking for a wife, she’s in her early 40’s and I am in my late 30’s. She really is everything I want in a guy, but in a woman lol. That said, I’m not quite ready to be in a relationship with a woman so that isn’t a real consideration for me. We talk so openly about everything but I don’t have a good reason to say anything to her about what’s been going on in my head/heart.

    As much as we like to be together I really don’t know if she likes me. I’m an attractive woman by general standards but I know she doesn’t like bi women and can’t stand bi-curious for reasons I don’t disagree with (I still consider myself straight, I think it’s just her). I’m pretty mature emotionally and am likely to just wait and watch for a while but I am glad to have found this blog :). I expect nothing will come of it based on my constraints and her dating preferences/goals but reading here has helped me sort out a lot of my thoughts.

  273. angla

    I’m 26 years old and lesbian, but I got married to a great man, caring, understanding and always willing to listen. We got married because of pressure of parents and religion. We’ve been married just about a year, but I haven’t been happy. My husband is good in bed and he would wear out any straight gal.
    I didn’t want man sex I wanted lesbian sex! We went for lunch one afternoon at a nice cafe it was on a lake. After lunch we sat by the lake and I just started crying and I couldn’t hold my feelings in anymore. I told him everything about who I really was and that I wanted another woman. He said OK do you want me to move out? I told him no I just couldn’t do that just let me figure something out. Things didn’t change much, we still slept together and cuddled in bed but didn’t have sex. I found a lady that I was attracted to I brought her home and he said we could have the master bedroom and would use the guest bedroom. I then found out my lady friend was also married, her husband had an apartment near our house. He didn’t live with his wife, so us girls decided we all needed to talk about us and what was going to happen with our lives. We got together one evening and talked for hours, it was decided that the girls would use the house and the men decided to share a three bedroom apartment.
    Us girls were happy and had each other, the guys were getting along and they didn’t really have any hobbies or sports in common . We decided to supprise them on Friday evening and pop in with pizza and beer. The apartment was dimly lite and quite, we heard some thing in the bedroom and cracked the door and peeked in. There were our husbands on the bed making out totally naked. Closed the door and left the apartment, we didn’t say any thing.
    We decided to get together for a group talk! Us girls were very happy with our lives and we were falling in love and wanted the sleeping arrangements to be permanant. Then we told the guys that we saw them making love one evening. The story came out that the guys were horny And tried to find some women to sleep with. That didn’t go as planned, so they went into a bar and found out it was a gay bar. They talked to some guy’s at the bar and was told that they were both good looking men and had great bodies and just sleep naked with each other and see where it goes. They had a few to many drinks and the naked part didn’t happen they just slept and woke up feeling terrible. The next evening they did sleep naked and being horny like men are had oral sex and moved on from there. That next weekend was when we caught them. So everything worked out I had my beautiful lover and the guys had each other also.

  274. Anonymous

    Wow, many of us Straight Good Men looking for a Straight Good woman that are now going for Lesbians today. How very strange that is.

  275. Anonymous

    Holly Cow, now i can really see why many of us Straight Guys are still Single today.

  276. Anna

    I’m actually surprised by this post, considering that I have dated many *straight* women. My experience has been just the opposite. It was all variations on: straight girl feels unloved by her boyfriend/husband, isn’t getting good sex, doesn’t feel understood, etc. etc. Enter lesbian. Straight girl falls in love and says the lesbian everything she ever wanted in a partner/lover except, you know, not a dude. After months of the straight girl leading the lesbian on by saying “I’m not gay, but I’m sooo in love with YOU,” she finally proves she really isn’t gay by going back to the husband/boyfriend. Why? Turns out she really likes the better sex and intimacy from a woman, but just can’t handle the societal disapproval. Lesbian, heartbroken, swears to stay away from straight girls, again. Until the next time…That’s been my story, and countless other of my friends. So, I guess heartbreak can happen on both sides.

  277. YGZ

    You’ve resurrected an old post, because your comments are crickets now. You’re not fooling anyone. CCL is gasping like a dying fish.

  278. Zako

    Sorry this is SO long, I hope some of whoever reads this can bear with me…..?….I’m also unsure if this is the place to post this…?…

    I’ve remained purposely single for 8.5 years, effectively celibate…which has been a positive experience for the most part – my life has been busy & stressful & I just wanted to work on myself after a messy relationship where she cheated with her ex, but still loved me….yeah whatever…I made a prompt exit & got on with life, determined to work on myself & be emotionally clear & healthy.


    I recently went away for few days break, with some friends I knew …some people I didn’t, in a group – everyone was straight or so it seemed, & I don’t tell anyone I’m gay unless they ask, so I assume they all thought I was straight…Anyway we all got along great had lots of fun partying & sightseeing….really fantastic trip…

    The day before we were due to fly back to London, a few of us were standing waiting for a ride, laughing chatting joking, there was a natural lull in the conversation, where a couple of people were still talking, but myself & this woman were silent, the others were looking & talking about other things….I don’t remember how but somehow we ended up in this prolonged gaze, I don’t know if I looked up & saw her looking or how it happened but it was…straight at each other, direct & intense, her eyes are a piercing hazel/blue…it caught me completely off-guard & made me catch my breath due to it’s intensity & an electric like shock hitting me… I can only say it was like being hit by a stun gun, not that I have been…but I don’t know how else to describe it, it made me look away, I then looked back & she was still looking.

    Until that point we’d been interacting like the rest of the group, we’d been introduced she was 33 married (I’m 41)…I had noticed how lovely & kind her personality seemed over the days, but that was it, no further thoughts, just a nice person I’d met…

    After that ‘electric shock experience, I had this overwhelming impulse to be near her, magnetic, we kept having this occasional eye contact which lasted longer than a natural passing, yet we remained otherwise as ‘normal’ with our interactions.

    On the dance floor that night, in the middle of dancing near her, I had to take out my phone just to type how I was feeling, just to get it out of my head…it ended up in a poem of raw emotion about what had happened that day…in the middle of the dance floor. Madness….well for me anyway, as a clear lined logical thinker.

    Next day on the way to the airport we ended up sat next to each in the van we’d hired, she was looking out the window & I thought she was tired, but I noticed she was crying….I wrote her a discrete note asking ‘if she was ok etc’….she said she was that she just didn’t feel well…I had a packet of tissues & slipped them on top her lap (everyone was in the van I was trying to be discrete & not to embarrass her) I held her hand for a few seconds between the seats & then she took hers away, & said she was ok now. Anyway after a while she stopped crying smiled at me, whispered ‘thank you’ & we talked a bit & things got back to normal.

    We travelled for a few hours & all I wanted to do was be close to her, even though we sat next to each other I tried to keep my distance….to the point it almost hurt, physically.

    At one point I cracked a joke & everyone was laughing, I had my hand on the seat by her shoulder & she held it & kissed it, I don’t think anyone saw, apart from us….but it just confuses me when I think of it….as I have zero idea how she feels, or if it’s a bizarre sequence of coincidences…or that indeed I am insane!

    At the Airport she cried again, she said because it had been a stressful journey – which it had, we almost missed our flights etc…..anyway her friends consoled her & I stayed back because at that moment I felt really self conscious around everyone for a second. She walked away to check her flight details, my stomach turned & I couldn’t compose myself further, I never cry but did & tried to deal with my tears…this just sounds ridiculous writing it now, but I just excused it to everyone as just over tiredness…but it wasn’t that, I just instantly missed her. Pathetic I know but anyway, I managed to sit away from everyone else (she was on a different plane anyway)…because I knew I’d be upset through the journey, which I was, I kept falling asleep & waking up crying.

    I kept thinking after the flight, this feeling will settle, OK after I get home it’ll settle, OK after catching up on sleep (it had been an 18hr trip home) how I feel will go away, I try not to think about her, but she’s always not far…after I get back to normal working life it’ll disappear, after a few days it’ll disappear, it does’nt…..I try to be really tired before bed, as to keep my mind filled, in the morning I open my eyes & she’s there & my unsettled yet beautiful emotion is still undercurrent, as strong as ever….

    We have a group chat which we started before our travels…but as soon as we got on separate planes she PM’d me & asked me to txt her when I got in safe….since then we chat everyday via txt, through the day it’s general & I’m very careful about what I write, & try & keep it fun & light…& vice versa, we laugh all the time we connect, but I of course try & push away from the feeling, as, she’s married. I end each day early evening, around 7-8 on purpose, even though I don’t want to, by wishing her a good evening, & don’t reply if she responds further, as I’m conscious she has a husband & don’t want to complicate things more than it already is…from my side anyways.

    I have this huge confusion & conflicting turmoil, of course, I’ve never pursued anyone who wasn’t single, & don’t wish to start now, it’s not who I am, I’m just struggling to make sense of this magnetism surrounding my perceived connection with her….saying that I’m sure she’s at least bisexual, just from how she presents herself…

    I don’t know where to put what I feel, I don’t want to feel like this, from what I’ve witnessed & know of her…she has all the qualities that compliment what I’m attracted to…& I’ve never felt this way, so for me to even think this way even though it’s beautiful…it’s such a messy situation, she’s married a year, I’m single, but busy in my life & lots of work responsibilities & have not had the time for romance or wanted to input the energy to find it…if it’s to happen it’ll happen etc.

    I’ve just wanted to grow as a person so that when I did meet someone I’d be ready & settled.

    Now I feel only loosely in control, I have no idea how she feels if I was/am imagining everything, misreading, misfeeling, over thinking, I feel afflicted by this beautiful ‘extreme like’, I’m avoiding the word ‘love’ but I know it’s hovering there & I’m terrified of it. It’s not lust as I feel I just want her to be happy.

    I keep telling myself that don’t have to be with her, I have keep the reality factor present, she doesn’t give the impression of being capable of being unfaithful, & I’ve never cheated on anyone, …….I guess I just need to know if I’m mad or not, re everything I think she may be feeling, or not….I’m aware ‘held in’ emotions are damaging & I don’t want to indirectly scar my soul, have NEVER broken up a rship intentional or unintentionally, I respect marriage & I respect her (so I’ve never allowed myself any non-platonic intimate thoughts, which has been hard, but I’m mastering it, because I don’t want to disrespect her even in a private mental level. I had no intention of interrupting her rship……but my heart is bursting & devastated at the same time….

    …..some thoughts from any wise readers would be much appreciated…or is this the wrong place to post this??

  279. Cheryl O'Meara

    Yikes, you’re in turmoil & sounds like you’ve got it bad. Having just left a het marriage for another married woman who also just came out as gay, I’m pretty qualified on this stuff.
    Ok in a nutshell, I think she’s probably gay, terrified & guilty because she married to try & bury it. Her feelings for you have brought that up but deep down you’re what she longs for but can’t have.
    BUT however strong your feelings, she has a long and messy road ahead of her, accepting she’s gay, leaving her marriage, dealing with the internalised homophobia that put her there. I’d steer clear for now but maybe stay in touch, hell tell her how you feel…. you’re in for a LOT of heartache & a big rollercoaster.
    Let her sort her life out in her own time and get on with yours. I’d say this is a really big sign that you’re ready for love, just maybe not with her.
    Good luck x

  280. XesPanther

    I’m a lesbian, kind of tom boyish, but feminine somehow. Soft butch? I dunno. lol. I have a beautiful gf and a problem with my awesome married friend at work. She wasn’t married when we met. I fell for her instantly and then found out she was getting married. She set off my gaydar initially, but oh well. Sucks. She is perfect in almost every way, and we just get each other. Anyway, I decided to get over it and be a friend. She started having martial problems and I was having issues with my ex at the time. I think we grew so close during this time that the feelings surfaced and grew. I mean we had very similar complaints, interests, tastes, funky senses of humor, and you know this story. I knew I had to stop, so I asked God to help. It wasn’t right to be in love with a married woman afterall. That’s when something amazing happened and my beautiful gf landed in my lap. My prayer was answered. I couldn’t believe it. Things were so perfect, but I’m her first gf and she has always been straight, and is now divorced and has a kid who is pretty rad. Anyway, then she started getting wishy washy. Her family is negative about us and I think the pressure put a big clamp on both of us. She is hiding our relationship even though they know. Weird. Anyway, I was crazy in love before, but now, I suck- feel like she might be going through a phase. I have walls I never had before and am cold and distant because, honestly, she hurt me by the wishy washy behaviors that I don’t care to elaborate about. Still, I really like her. so I’m confused. Fast forward, i always grab drinks with my coworker, who’s married. I thought I had a handle on things and though I’ve always flirted and find myself incredibly attracted to her, was proud of myself for not giving into it. Especially since she is so touchy with me and I think she feels that same strange connection. Like as if a soul just saw itself in a waterfall, then had unicorns poking at it, telling it to just jump in. Yeah, I’m pretty dumb – she is way cooler than that. The next part gets hairy though. We go for drinks one night with others and she suddenly says that her hubby is gone for the night. I recall asking if I can crash at her place because i was in terrible shape from excessive drinking. Then I blacked out and the next thing I know, we are fooling around in bed. I literally don’t remember how it happened but I didn’t stop it. I was like, “hell yes!” And then immediately felt guilty the next morning, because she is married and I have a gf. Damnit! Really though, I feel mostly guilty because i loved every moment I can recall and haven’t stopped thinking about her since. The whole married/lesbian one night stand story really doesn’t seem to have many happy endings. Now I’m trying to focus on what’s wrong and right about my current relationship. Asking myself, “am I the serial straight- girl crazy lesbian???” I have never stopped loving this woman, and it wouldn’t be fair to stay with my gf if I can’t figure out my crap. All things happen for a reason, so wish me well.

  281. Janette

    Ok, so I recently realized that I was gay. I’m 30. I should’ve known I was a lesbian from the time I was a child, but I grew up in such a conservative family that I had relatives who believed that it was a horrible sin to be gay, and some relatives even stated their wishes that “perverts should be rounded up and murdered.” Thusly, I spent all my teenage years and years into adulthood having the feels but refusing to acknowledge. The risk was too high — I would lose my family. I was the classic tomboy/sport dyke/made extravagant gifts for all my lady teachers… Didn’t go to prom, didn’t go on a single date with a man until I was 23 years old. Gay or questioning women were very interested in me, and it always startled me because I was scared that they were observing something about me that I was too afraid to acknowledge. 7 years of terrible dates with men and I finally acknowledged my deep attraction to women. So that hurdle addressed, I started researching a bit. I’ve discovered that a lot of lesbians are incredibly insecure, and are quite judgmental due to this fact. I’ve heard of many lesbians who refuse to date questioning women because they are afraid of getting wounded. But let’s be realistic here. I race downhill mountain bikes professionally and sometimes I get injured before I get to the bottom, but sometimes I win. If I get scared and walk off the course, I choose to lose, end of story. And I’d rather kiss the pretty girl at the bottom of the track than to have to explain to her, to myself, and to everyone why I gave up. So. Ladies. Stop freaking out. Don’t bail on the straight girls who are clearly not that straight if they’re sleeping with you.

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