Why Can’t Lesbians Be More Like Gay Boys?
I am obsessed with the TV show 1 Girl 5 Gays! Does anyone else watch this?! Remi and I record it to watch in the morning over coffee because we are so intrigued with gay boy culture. Or should I say, the differences between the gay boys and the gay girl cultures?
I have often said that I wish lesbians were more like gay boys. I wish that we were more flamboyant, more colorful and more forward about sex. Watching 1 G 5Gs only furthers my suspicions that gay boys are having more fun then us!
As an all male culture, they seem to be hyper sexual and very forward about it in some ways. Why can’t we be like that? And before anyone jumps down my throat about stereotyping one side or the other, let me give you a very real, very good example of what I’m talking about.
If you go to any lesbian bar out here in Los Angeles, even the so-called hot spot of the moment to see and be seen. That’s the majority of what will happen, a lot of looking, not enough touching. You will see a lot of sexy women and they will see you. But talking to anyone new is a whole other story. I have often felt like my nights in Girl Bar were more reminiscent of a 6th grade dance then a West Hollywood nightclub. Bois lining one wall and the femmes on the other. Everyone wants to dance, but no wants to be shot down. Hence, no one makes a move.
Sure there are always the sprinkling of brave and or drunk souls swaying on the dance floor, oblivious to the world around them. Then there’s the group crowded around the go-go dancers, with a hopeful smile as they look up at her, waving their one dollar bills dangerously close to her naughty bits, hoping to bribe her over to their side of the platform, if only to give them false hope, that she wants more then their money.
But for the most part, people tend to stay with the people they came with. As a general rule, lesbians in this town appear to be very clickish. I recently had a few readers email me and ask why LA lesbians are so mean!?
Here is my answer to that: I don’t think we really are that mean. OK, we’re a little mean. At first, but if you manage to get past the initial icy stares, we’re usually friendly people. Maybe this topic alone, deserves it’s own blog post? Something like, Deciphering the LA Lesbian? Stay tuned for that one. But I digress.
LA is like high school on crack. Very clicky. Very image oriented. Very status conscious. Even the nice girls tend to care what they “look like” to others. As in, are they seen as desirable and someone cool enough to talk too? That alone can keep a nice girl from appearing too friendly, lest her natural smile at strangers invokes an unwanted come-on from the only person in the club not afraid of rejection, because it happens so often to them they’re immune. You know, that one person that creeps you out and can’t read body language or understand the word “No.”
I’m speaking from personal experience. I like to think that I’m a very nice person, I’m friendly, easy to talk to. Yet I have been told from strangers that I look like a total bitch in clubs. That look on my face, that’s misinterpreted as bitchy should have a thought bubble over my head that reads, “My feet hurt in these stupid stilettos. I look fat in these jeans. I hope they play some old school hip hop so I can get my boogie on. OMG I think I’ve slept with that bartender! Did my wife notice me staring at that bartender? Wait, is SHE staring at the bartender? I think I have a headache.”
Basically, whatever look on face that makes me look like I’d bite your head off if you said hi to me, is really just a misrepresentation of me being distracted and probably in some amount of pain from the shoes I wore to try to look sexy.
But this is all part of why I wish lesbians were more like gay boys. Because on any night of the week, if you walk into a gay bar filled with men, you will be greeted with smiles, hellos and random impromptu dirty dancing flash mops. Seriously! Gay guys are awesome. They’re friendly, talkative, forward and open. When one guy likes another one, he goes up and talks to him! Or dances with him, or just kisses him. I’ve seen this happen with friends of mine. They don’t waste any time!
Gay boys are more action oriented then lesbians. While lesbians tend to get caught up on their heads, playing out the worst case scenario, if they dare to go up to that hot girl. Gay boys are actually doing something! They might be getting shot down more then us, but they’re also probably getting laid more then us! It’s all a numbers game, ladies. And you have to play to win.
I guess I could oversimplify this entire situation by putting it this way: in the straight world, men are expected to make the first move. Women are expected to play hard to get. Now trade that in for the gay community and we’ve got two guys, twice has much testosterone, twice as many penis wielding horny men in the mix and no woman to put the breaks on. Then in the lesbian camp we have two women playing hard to get, two women waiting for the other to make the first move and two women thinking way too much. It can take forever.
I would love it if lesbians took a few lessons from gay guys on how to be more fun, more friendly and more open to new experiences! But until that happens, I’ve decided I need some more gay men in my life!! Since I’m already taken and no longer playing hard to get for anyone other then Remi (yes, she still has to work for it). Gay men seem like the answer to our night life woes. They’re gorgeous, funny and friendly! What’s not to love?
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Just putting it out there, and feel free to shut me down with a resounding “duh” because I’m not really involved in any sort of lesbian culture…but….is the L word an accurate portrayal of what lesbians are like?
If not, how do we know (not being gay boys) that this TV show isn’t just as cheesy and fake as the one or two episodes of the L word that I was able to stomach?
I guess part of it is that as women and girls we’re taught that for all our sexual freedom and prowess, you’re still a slut or a whore if you go out and put your sexuality and sensuality on display- and we’re definitely taught that it’s a bad thing to be either! We need to shake that stigma! Literally, figuratively! I mean, it’s a club- what are you supposed to do? *Not* shake it?
As for being nervous, and afraid of rejection… Yes, I totally get that. Especially when someone is just soooo hot, and you wonder if you’re even their type. I guess for that one it really is just a matter of rolling with the punches. Start having fun first, hopefully the music is fast so everything is just timed, dance over to someone cute, flirt, if you’re rejected you can dance away just as fast!
P.S.
I’ve also been known to suffer from “chronic bitch face.” Mostly it’s my neutral face that suffers from CBF, haha!
Rad, to answer your questions about the L word. To specify, the original L word, NOT the crappy reality spinoff … I have to say in MY OPINION, it was pretty accurate for Los Angeles based lesbians, in my personal experience. Sad but true. Not saying every La dyke has that same life experience, but it was very close in many ways to my own and to that of many of my lesbian friends.
But I have heard many women disown any resemblance to the L word, so it’s all subjective.
Now about the gay boys on TV …. Valid question. And since I don’t know too many gay guys, I can only compare them to the ones I do know. And to be fair, thenshownitself has a rotating panel of guys that represent different “stereotypes” if you will of gay men. They’re vastly different, in my opinion. But having said that, my experiences with gay guys and gay male clubs have always been great! Lots of fun, very friendly!
I just wish lesbians could be nicer. In general.
Great Post!!!! You hit all the high points with a perfect bullseye. I am a lucky girl and my bffl is a gay man. Through him, at times, I’ve been ankle deep in the gay guy culture and they ARE more flamboyant, they DO have more fun, and they AREN’T anywhere near as uptight. My gay guyfriend is in the hair/fashion industry, has impeccable taste, and many a night he would dress me up to the high 12’s and take me out to the hot spot gay club to dance (since we’re both dancers). The dance floor is a swarm of feel good and it is bright and sparkly and anything goes. Tons of gorgeous guys, tons of great dancers and I always went home with my twinkle toes satisfied. I’ve been hit on by way more lesbians in a gay guy club than in the “home” turf. In a place where there are so many people packed in, it is easy to become anonymous and strange, whereas in the lesbian clubs, everyone recognizes everyone else AND knows their story. I was once wearing a dress that was backless all the way down to my ass, and after a particularly hot dance session, I was sweating and cooling off on the side, mesmerized by the throng on the floor. I felt an ice cold tingle down my spine and when I looked around there was a gorgeous woman who could have walked out of any of the hot pictures you post on here. She was sucking that ice cube in such a way…..
I think you are right that women are more self-focused, and most times they can be found thinking about themselves (those thoughts tend to extend to include their wife/fiancee/girlfriend/date as themselves). At any given time, any woman isn’t thinking about you, she’s thinking of herself and I believe that is why there is such dead air between them. Once on a high from a gay guy’s club, I wandered into a nearby lesbian bar and the moods in them could not have been more opposite. Think of going from a circus complete with loud music, jugglers, trapeze artists and an enthusiastic crowd straight into an elevator complete with strangers looking at the ceiling or the floor and, you know, “elevator music”. The lesbian bar wasn’t actually playing elevator music, but from the lack of energy in that place, they might as well have been. I wanted to stir things up in there, and so I grabbed a couple of girls and swung them out to the floor, and for about 10 lovely minutes, things actually woke up, but it didn’t last long. Sigh.
It’s been years since I’ve been on the club circuit, but Sasha, you made me remember those days, and I just may have to wander out there again sometime soon.
I have to agree…with girls we’re all questioning ‘should I make a move? Or should I wait?’ and I have a few gay guy friends and the are awesome 🙂 They don’t care as much for image and just joke around being funny and have a good time. And they are really nice. And I think one of the reason they are so nice is because gay men get a little more distain than us lezzies, basically cuz lesbians are seen as ‘hot’ and gay guys arent realy recieving that from straight people. So they are as nice as possible. Plus lesbians always have guys hittin on us saying we ‘havent met the right guy’ but how often are gay guys hit on by women who tell them they need to meet the right woman? And that can make us a little sour I guess.
Two of my closest friends are gay men (my brother and “Gender Free”). I love spending time with them for who they are not who they do. Meaning I don’t love them because they are gay I love them because of the strength, beauty and kindness of their character.
“LA is like high school on crack. Very clicky. Very image oriented. Very status conscious. Even the nice girls tend to care what they “look like” to others.”-it’s like this in Nor CA too. Not to the same degree I agree. Unfortunately I just think women are like
that everywhere. Men (gay or straight) tend to be less petty with and towards each other, at least in my experience. Whereas the opposite appears to be true and unfortunately, again from my experience, it seems to be second
nature in girls. I see rumors, tattle telling and pettiness
even among girls who are
only between 6 and 7 years
old.
Since it’s tradition for long-time lurkers who finally come out and comment to say what a great blog it is, I will say it: WHAT A GREAT BLOG! 😉 Seriously though, it has both helped and inspired me ever since I found it. Thank you very much for that. You are doing something incredibly important for all us queers and don’t ever forget it.
As for the post, you are so right! I actually learned to flirt by observing gay guys. Now I flirt with everyone, gay or straight, male or female, trans or cis. It’s fun, and even if someone reacts negatively, well, that’s life! A moment of awkwardness is better than a night of loneliness, in any case. 🙂
Have a great day. Again, thank you so much for creating CCL.
Gods, scusate everyone – *It has been both helpful and inspiring, I meant, not the strange WeirdTenseUsage monster that I accidentally created. Non-native speaker here, sorry. 😉
because men have testosterone pumping through their bodies which causes them to think with the dumb stick. when they go out they are more action oriented because they are looking for nothing more than to get laid. Women are taught to play hard to get and a lot of us (not all) want something more than a casual hookup so we play it cool.
Kenley, I think you are correct in that the T makes their brainless head the boss. True, their little bloodhound sniffs the trail for sex 24/7. But the geity doesn’t seem stop at the club. Even at home, with just a few friends, the party doesn’t stop. They are slap happy people and it is almost impossible to be depressed or blue around them. At least around the circle I used to hang with, it was that way. Yes, they were gay, but they were also carefree, daring, bold, witty, and downright hilarious and fun to be around. I also *used* to hang with lesbian clicks, and the drama just never seems to stop, and that may be an estrogen and PMS thing, I don’t know. I have yet to find a group of lesbians that aren’t into drama. If it’s not there, they seem to create it. I have, however, found friendship with several who are loyal, level headed and wise and I wouldn’t trade them for all the gay guys in the world.
maybe b/c most girls are catty to some extent no matter what their sexual orientation is? idk. *shrugsshoulders*
It’s called male privilege. It we as females didn’t have to struggle and defend ourselves for wanting a piece of what they’re abundantly given just for being male, we would have more time to have more fun.
Whoa, alexisstrapped! That’s pretty harsh. I don’t know if I agree with that. Because I wonder how far that typical “male privilege” extends into a flamboyantly gay man’s life experience. Not only are they seen as the other, once they come out, it once you take into account race, I have a feeling that so called privilege lessens to a certain degree.
I tend to think that male privilege is mostly attributed to white straight men.
Interesting …… Thanks for the comment Alexisstrapped. I think you’re new? Welcome!
Having witnessed my brother’s experiences and those of “Gender Free” I definitely don’t think gay men fall under the same umbrella of “male privilege” in this homophobic society we live in. Straight men yes absolutely.
I’m going to have to agree with AlexIsStrapped (which I kept reading as AlexIsStrappedOn!!!) on this one.
Sasha, you know I love you dearly (and love arguing with you, too!), but I’m going to have to disagree more with your comment than on your actual post on this one.
Gay men absolutely can have male privilege. Yes, gay men are held to different standards of masculinity, but one oppression doesn’t cancel out the other. That would be like saying that as a white lesbian, I don’t have white privilege. Obviously, I do. My lesbianism doesn’t cancel out my racial privilege.
Yes, Sasha, I agree with you that privilege is….well, not lessened, but changed. Within a straight, white, male community, a gay man might not have the same privilege as he does in a group of lesbians.
Unfortunately, under patriarchy, male privilege is so deeply entrenched in our society that we don’t even recognize it. That’s why I have to agree with AlexIsStrapped…in asking why men are able to be open about their sexuality, not play games, and just have fun…male privilege. Under patriarchy, women’s sexualities are still policed in a way that men’s aren’t.
I would argue that this whole post, while lovely and entertaining in parts, is in itself, internalized sexism (okay…unleash the wild dogs….I know it’s going to happen anyway)….
Oops….is my radical feminism showing?? 😀
“It’s called male privilege. It we as females didn’t have to struggle and defend ourselves for wanting a piece of what they’re abundantly given just for being male, we would have more time to have more fun.”
What does male privilege have to do with lesbians not hitting on other lesbians? The problem was people not making a move, and answering it by saying that we just don’t have the time or energy to hit on each other when we want to because of male privilege just doesn’t seem to be the piece that fits to that puzzle. I mean, “have more time to have fun”? You’re at the club! Did you go to the club to talk about how you don’t have time to be at the club and do what you want to do? I do have some hypotheses, but I want to know more about your (those who think this is directly due to male privilege) while I collect my thoughts.
*I want to know more about your thought process and perspective.
I can only speak for myself, but I can say that I am a rather flirty person. I’m the girl who will get up and start dancing in the middle of an empty dance floor because I feel like it, and everyone else be damned. It’s partially why I do love going to gayboy clubs – I can be free of prying straight male hands, and I can be free to just enjoy myself in a queer atmosphere (my comfort zone) without worrying about women.
I recently asked a butch woman out. In the past, it had seemed she was TOTALLY into me. I think partially it was a roles thing. I don’t know a ton about roles in the gay male world, but we all know that sometimes in the lesbian world, the roles are really defined and that makes it harder to get things started.
There’s also the sexual aspect of men vs. women – I definitely know there’ve been times I’ve gone out and I could easily go home with at least one woman (if not more – ahem!), but I choose not to. (Okay, part of it might be because I’m lazy and hate spending hours cleaning my apartment just for the chance at random sex.) I also enjoy flirting just for the sake of flirting, but I’ve had to tamp that down because I swear I would go to bars and just flirt with a bunch of women for the fun and joy of it and then find they got upset when they realized I wasn’t necessarily interested beyond that. It’s as if by flirting even a little bit with them, I was suddenly promising them a wedding, house, kids and a dog. Um, nope, just kicking up my heels. I realized I was hurting people by giving them false expectations, so I am a lot quieter at bars now. Shame, because I think flirting is one of the joys of life.
That said, if you really want to be seductive and pull someone, you can. I mean that for everyone. Seduction in and of itself isn’t that hard. So many women worry about their looks etc. That’s not to say gay men don’t worry about their looks too (ha!) but gay men of ALL different stripes have no problem getting laid.
For me, the other part of why I don’t just take women home like men do is that I don’t want to. I’ve had a few one night stands, and they’re fun, but I want substance in my life. Trust me, there are definitely times when the ole libido kicks in and wishes I could just conjure up a woman to come over and satisfy my desires. That’s so not going to happen though. We’d have to go on several dates first! 🙂 There’s also times I wish I was straight/bisexual because I know I could pretty much go into the street, wink at some guy, and have him in my bed in 20 minutes. My point? Men are easy.
The best friend of one of my good (straight) female friends is a gay man who pretty much gets blowjobs twice a day from different guys. He’ll just find some guy on Grindr, say come over, the guy will blow him and leave. The thing is, from what I understand, he doesn’t necessarily enjoy all the sex he gets either. It almost seems addictive (given he has other addictive behaviors, I make that statement with some certainty).
A lot of what you’re seeing in the gay men’s clubs is the sexual vibe. The sexual vibe is the color, the joy, the laughter, the clowning around that you see. It is the sensual, the sexual, the fun. It is the energy that says anything can happen (and likely will). When women have that vibe as well, it is amazing, beautiful, fun, joyous and filled with laughter as well. But that energy is also a magnet that attracts people to you. Given that women need do nothing to attract people towards us, and often in ways we are very uncomfortable with, releasing that kind of energy is scary. With men, it is powerful. With women, it is powerful as well, but it can also be an incredibly vulnerable thing. As lesbians, we are used to the double vulnerability of being women and being women who have no interest in the dominant sexuality (ie. men) and finding that can be a diffcult. Take two of those people and put them in a room, and you’ll be hard pressed to find such a vibrant, sexual energy such as you find in the gay men’s world.
“Given that women need do nothing to attract people towards us, and often in ways we are very uncomfortable with, releasing that kind of energy is scary. ” A-ha! I think WWG just found the missing puzzle piece!
Thanks Elegy!
Women are sooo beautiful. Their bodies are so curved and dynamic!! No wonder men and women want them so much. It is really a beautiful gift!
I crave your bodies much…. “sigh”…
C’mon, Rad….”I would argue that this whole post, while lovely and entertaining in parts, is in itself, internalized sexism”….I don’t see any discrimination in this post. I see observations based on reality. That’s like saying merely noticing male is different than female is sexist. It’s not because they ARE different. One thing is not like the other. Nor are the cultures which surround them. Sasha’s intention was to point out the differences, and her preferences, based upon her experience. I know this because she says so from the start.
The fact Sasha prefers the lively, sexually charged and blatant hedonism of the gay male club culture to the more tame atmosphere of the lesbian club scene, does not mean she is discriminating against anyone. She just has a preference. Discrimination must exist before it can be called sexism. In a hyper-politically correct world, it might make sense to make a charge of sexism simply because one notices a difference in sex, (“She noticed he was male, therefore she is sexist”), but in the real world, like it or not, stereotypes exist for a reason. In our broad and collective experience, certain patterns do emerge with regard to certain groups and we notice them. It is widely accepted that gay boys have more of what some people see as “fun”, and some of it is because they aren’t as protective of their sexuality as most women are (gay or straight). We don’t “give it up” as easily, and I don’t know a single female that has ever cruised a wooded park to get anonymous blow jobs from someone in the bushes. We’re different, and there is no reason we can notice these differences and base our preferences on them. One might call you a sexist because you sexually prefer women. That could be seen as discriminatory towards men. See?
Rad, really???? Internalized sexism because I observed, observable differences in our cultures and dared to write a tongue-in-cheek post on it? Chillax a bit ….. enjoy life a little more without always trying to tear into others with a war on semantics. Sometimes a smile is just a smile, not a sub rosa call to arms.
This is not really a response to the topic of discussion, but I had to share this story:
Sasha, I LOVE that show, I once asked another lesbian (through text) if she had ever watched 1 girl 5 gays and her response was “no I had a 3 some once but I never been with 5 gay guys.
…….
wtf?